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Re: Article on ARTIMA

Patrick Bennett

9/30/2003 10:16:00 PM

Personally, I think he's basically correct (the talkback comment), but
in practice I don't think it's that big of a problem for most Ruby
users.
For some, it is. In particular, Ruby's performance is abysmal (at least
when compared to Perl, Python, Java, C#, etc.) As I said though, for
many of the things that people use Ruby for, this isn't an issue (or
they write c/c++ extension modules for performance critical code).

-----Original Message-----
From: Kingsley [mailto:kingsley@icecode.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 5:05 PM
To: ruby-talk ML; bobx@linuxmail.org
Subject: Re: Article on ARTIMA


Well I don't know if this comment is factually correct or whether it is
just a
re-iteration of an anti-ruby chinese whisper.

But If David Garamond the author is right in what he says, then I would
much
prefer people to aknowledge this and work to improve it, than retort
with
over-exaggerated claims about how wrong he is.

Positive criticism should be welcomed, embraced and seen as an
opportunity for
advancement.

Thats my thoughts anyway

Kingsley


On Tuesday 30 September 2003 22:19, Bob X wrote:
> From the talkback:
>
> "Ruby is over 10 years old, very popular in Japan, gaining popularity
> in other parts of the world, have thousands of users and hundreds of
> hackers. However, the implementation (Ruby has only 1 currently,
> written in C) is pretty weak. It's slow, does not support native
> threads, does not do JIT compilation (not even bytecode), needs a
> better GC, etc. It is especially so if we compare it with Java and
> Smalltalk, who have gotten real good implementations (JIT compilers,
> fast GC, threads, etc) nowadays."
>
> Comments?





3 Answers

Joe Cheng

10/2/2003 4:32:00 AM

0

> Personally, I think he's basically correct (the talkback comment), but
> in practice I don't think it's that big of a problem for most Ruby
> users.
> For some, it is. In particular, Ruby's performance is abysmal (at least
> when compared to Perl, Python, Java, C#, etc.) As I said though, for
> many of the things that people use Ruby for, this isn't an issue (or
> they write c/c++ extension modules for performance critical code).

If people are indeed writing C/C++ extension modules for performance
reasons, that would seem to indicate that people are using Ruby for tasks
where performance is at least somewhat important.

On the other hand, if people are not using Ruby for things where performance
is an issue, that still doesn't mean Ruby doesn't stand to gain a whole lot
by improving its performance. Back when Java performance really stunk (i.e.
pre-Hotspot), you could've said "performance isn't a big problem for most
Java users". Now that it is (relatively) fast and has a well-behaved
garbage collector, people are using Java for everything from backend order
processing to mail servers.

I've been working on an IMAP server for Java for awhile, but have never
found the time to finish it. If I had written it in Ruby I might've
finished it already, but the speed and threading issues (real or perceived)
scare me enough to keep me from choosing Ruby for that particular project.


Steve Cooper

2/25/2008 8:44:00 PM

0

Jerry Kraus wrote:
> On Feb 25, 2:27 pm, David Johnston <da...@block.net> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:38:55 -0500, "Patriot Games"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>><Patr...@America.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Jerry Kraus" <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:ae7d5d89-21b0-4063-a012-4a262e4a6fd0@e60g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>>On Feb 25, 8:23 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>"Jerry Kraus" <jkraus_1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:ed0d40db-c2bc-4c85-b660-9519bd2a6c6f@u69g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>On Feb 24, 12:43 pm, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
>>>>>SHOULD HAVE BEEN:
>>>>>The US has 573% larger population than Spain yet ONLY 49% more lawyers
>>>>>PER
>>>>>PERSON.
>>>>>The US has 414% larger population than Italy yet ONLY 84% more lawyers
>>>>>PER
>>>>>PERSON.
>>>>>The US has 397% larger population than UK yet ONLY 51% more lawyers PER
>>>>>PERSON.
>>>>>The US has 270% larger population than Germany yet ONLY 50% more lawyers
>>>>>PER
>>>>>PERSON.
>>>>
>>>>Interesting take. So, the population stats are irrelevant, having
>>>>nothing to do with the comparison. And, every single country has far
>>>>more lawyers than the U.S. per person. Really you might as well just
>>>>say:
>>>>The US has 49% more lawyers PER PERSON than Spain
>>>>The US has 84% more lawyers PER PERSON than Italy
>>>>The US has 51% more lawyers PER PERSON than the UK
>>>>The US has 120% more lawyers PER PERSON than Germany
>>
>>>Except that would be inaccurate.
>>
>>>The population isn't irrelevant, its actually the key. We are a HUGE nation
>>>compared to every other European nation. Based on our population we SHOULD
>>>HAVE MANY times more lawyers, but we don't.
>>
>>Why would large population mean a higher proportion of lawyers per
>>person?
>>
>>
>>
>>- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>- Show quoted text -
>
>
> Because Patriot likes to make things up to try to explain how
> everything in the United States is perfect. That's why he claims to
> operate his business overseas. Because everything is perfect in the
> U.S.!
>
> Don't expect logic from this guy, David.
>

Ah but you've forgotten simple networking. If you have 2 people they can only sue each
other, so 1 lawyer needed, if you have 3 then there are 3 pairings possible so 3 lawyers
needed, at 4 people this rises to 6 pairings, 5 to 10 pairings 6 to 15 pairings and so.

So its obvious why you need more lawyers for a larger population there are just so many
more ways we can sue each other. ;)

Steve C

Patriot Games

2/25/2008 10:41:00 PM

0

"Steve Cooper" <Steve.Cooper@jet.uk> wrote in message
news:fpv9a3$t9$1@north.jnrs.ja.net...
> Ah but you've forgotten simple networking. If you have 2 people they can
> only sue each other, so 1 lawyer needed, if you have 3 then there are 3
> pairings possible so 3 lawyers needed, at 4 people this rises to 6
> pairings, 5 to 10 pairings 6 to 15 pairings and so.
> So its obvious why you need more lawyers for a larger population there
> are just so many more ways we can sue each other. ;)

And ADD to that that in the US anybody can sue anybody for any reason at any
time.

And ADD TO THAT that in the US (generally) attorneys get FULLY PAID (plus
all expenses) even when they TOTALLY FAIL at their job.