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comp.lang.ruby

Re: Spam and Trolls

Mark Wilson

9/30/2003 1:17:00 AM

This is the only post I intend making on this topic. I respectfully
request that all discussions about spam and trolls take place off-list,
including complaints about spam and trolls. It's hard enough to train a
spam filter without legitimate folk replying to and quoting spam and
troll messages.

Regards,

Mark Wilson


3 Answers

Josef 'Jupp' Schugt

9/30/2003 7:54:00 PM

0

Hi!

* Mark Wilson; 2003-09-30, 12:51 UTC:
> I respectfully request that all discussions about spam and trolls
> take place off-list, including complaints about spam and trolls.
> It''s hard enough to train a spam filter without legitimate folk
> replying to and quoting spam and troll messages.

What about adding this to the FAQ of the group so that one can simply
refer to it if necessary? Here''s a draft (both English and German):

- -------------------------------------------------------------------
How to react to trolls and spam?

Do not react at all or at least keep your reactions off-list -
including complaints about spam and trolls. It''s hard enough to train
a spam filter without people replying to and quoting spam and troll
messages.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Wie sollte ich mit Trolls und Spam umgehen?

Reagieren Sie ueberhaupt nicht oder verschonen Sie zumindest die
Liste mit ihren Reaktionen - auch mit Beschwerden ueber Spam und
Trolls. Es ist auch ohne Leute, die auf Spam und Nachrichten von
Trolls reagieren, schwierig genug, einen Spamfilter zu trainieren.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------

I think it would be great if we could help ''Dave Thomas'' fighting
spam and the like. I think of some kind of trouble ticket system
where people (after authenticating if necessary) can provide the
message numbers of messages they suspect to be non-ham.

Opinions on the former and the latter?

Please take notice of signature! / Bitte Signature beachten!

Josef ''Jupp'' Schugt
--
*Warning!* For sending me messages > 100 kB you need my explicit
permission. Otherwise they will be silently discarded.
*Vorsicht!* Mails > 100 KB nehme ich nur nach vorheriger Absprache
entgegen. Ohne eine solche Absprache werden sie ungelesen geloescht.

Ben Giddings

9/30/2003 8:33:00 PM

0

Josef ''Jupp'' Schugt wrote:
> What about adding this to the FAQ of the group so that one can simply
> refer to it if necessary? Here''s a draft (both English and German):
>
> - -------------------------------------------------------------------
> How to react to trolls and spam?
>
> Do not react at all or at least keep your reactions off-list -
> including complaints about spam and trolls. It''s hard enough to train
> a spam filter without people replying to and quoting spam and troll
> messages.

I think it''s a good idea to have a FAQ entry saying not to feed the trolls,
but I don''t think this is the right answer.

I think if you''re training a Bayesian filter, you need to give it the tough
cases too, so that it knows to distinguish between spam and ham. I also
think that some spam/troll discussion is necessary even if it is just "I
think this message is spam/a troll because of X, Y, Z so don''t reply to it".

It would also be useful to mention that because the list is public and is
mirrored from Usenet there are subtleties that people don''t seem to understand:

1) Crossposting frequently occurs on Usenet. Messages which may show up in
your inbox may in fact be usenet messages posted to 10 groups. This is
surely not a message you should reply to. This also explains a lot of
not-on-topic messages which you might see.

2) If you have any suspicion that a message may be spam or a troll, here
are some ways to check:
* Does the email address / return address look valid?
* Can you spot multiple newsgroups in the header which shouldn''t be there?
* Do a quick google / google news search on the name and see if he/she is a
known troll
* Is the content of the message either completely unrelated to Ruby or very
inflamatory?

3) Some typical trolls and troll subjects to watch out for are:
* Which is better, Ruby or _______
* Ruby sucks, here''s why
* Which is the best language for _________ <- typically cross-posted to
20 newsgroups

4) If a potential spam or troll message offends you, you''re probably not
alone. While it may be tempting to respond, unless you really think your
message will be appreciated by a large number of people on the list, resist
the temptation.




As for the idea of an off-topic Ruby mailing list... I don''t think that
would be worthwhile. If 1 in 20 messages on the list is off-topic, but
marked as such, I don''t mind, and my threshold for on-topicness is pretty
high. I think limited discussions of programming in general, even if it
isn''t Ruby-specific is useful here since it broadens everybody''s horizons.
I also don''t mind the occasional joking reply to an on-topic post... if
the list were just "How do I do X in ruby" and answers to that, it would
become pretty dry and limited.

As long as the subjects seem to do a pretty accurate job of reflecting the
content of the message it is an easy matter to skip over uninteresting ones.

Ben


henon

9/30/2003 10:47:00 PM

0

Josef ''Jupp'' Schugt wrote:
[...]
>
> What about adding this to the FAQ of the group so that one can simply
> refer to it if necessary? Here''s a draft (both English and German):
>

[...]

> Opinions on the former and the latter?
my opinion in en/de:

you don''t want people to stop to reply on spam? why? just let you spam
filters discard those messages: the resulting ignorance of such postings
will teach them.
---------------------------------------------------------
wenn du willst dass die gesellschaft nicht auf spam reagiert, dann
brauchst du genau gar nichts tun. lass das deinen spam-filter erledigen.
die daraus resultierende ignoranz solcher postings wird ihnen eine
lehre sein.

> Josef ''Jupp'' Schugt

(sig closed due to software patents)