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Re: Windows Forms - are they portable?

Peter Vidler

8/20/2003 11:24:00 AM

Many of the components use the builtin windows components (RichTextBox,
etc).. I believe your programs will (eventually) be usable with Mono so long
as you don't use P/Invoke with windows dll's or override WndProc. Of course
you can still do these things and use Mono with Wine to provide the dll's.

Mono's version of windows forms is just a wrapper for their GTK# stuff I
think.

Pete


Andre wrote:
> It's interesting to see how .Net (at least C# and VB.NET) are being
> ported to unix platforms (Mono) and I just got off compiling a small
> program written in C# and ran it on a Linux box. I was looking at mono
> and noticed that the 'Graphical API' only currently works for Gnome
> and the Gtk windowing toolkit. Also, a recent post by someone
> complaining that their forms ran slower on windows 98 made me wonder
> if the .Net Team has actually standardized the WinForm API (Like
> Swing in Java)? Do WinForms use the underlying win32 API only? Are
> they at all comparable to Swing? Thanks
>
> cheers,
>
> Andre
20 Answers

Wiktor Zychla

8/20/2003 12:50:00 PM

0

> Many of the components use the builtin windows components (RichTextBox,
> etc).. I believe your programs will (eventually) be usable with Mono so
long
> as you don''t use P/Invoke with windows dll''s or override WndProc. Of
course
> you can still do these things and use Mono with Wine to provide the dll''s.
>
> Mono''s version of windows forms is just a wrapper for their GTK# stuff I
> think.

As long as their statements are correct, they are going to implement
System.Windows.Forms library that would be handled by Wine, a Windows
emulator running on Linux platform. that, of course, would be enormously
slow but there is a change that it''s gonna work.

in fact, the Wine project is quite advanced now and I will not be surprised
with a System.Windows.Forms application running on Linux in near future.

Wiktor

Willie B. Hardigan

8/20/2003 1:00:00 PM

0

Winforms has 2 paths on MONO, one is using PInvoke to call the win32 API
(there fore dependant on wine) and the other is less compatible but uses
GTK#.

Linux on the desktop is NOTHING without VMWARE and WINE etc for now

--

Willie B. Hardigan
Microsoft Product Deactivation Team
--


"Wiktor Zychla" <ieUser@microsoft.com.no.spam> wrote in message
news:O0T6EmxZDHA.2032@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > Many of the components use the builtin windows components (RichTextBox,
> > etc).. I believe your programs will (eventually) be usable with Mono so
> long
> > as you don''t use P/Invoke with windows dll''s or override WndProc. Of
> course
> > you can still do these things and use Mono with Wine to provide the
dll''s.
> >
> > Mono''s version of windows forms is just a wrapper for their GTK# stuff I
> > think.
>
> As long as their statements are correct, they are going to implement
> System.Windows.Forms library that would be handled by Wine, a Windows
> emulator running on Linux platform. that, of course, would be enormously
> slow but there is a change that it''s gonna work.
>
> in fact, the Wine project is quite advanced now and I will not be
surprised
> with a System.Windows.Forms application running on Linux in near future.
>
> Wiktor
>
>

Larry Maturo

8/20/2003 1:32:00 PM

0

I''ll probably get shot for mentioning this, but Borland Delphi has a tk
interface
they ported to windows, so you can use Delphi to write apps that can be
compiled on either Linux using Kylix (the Linux version of Delphi) or
Windows using Delphi. They also have a non-portable Windows only
library that is slightly more powerful.

-- Larry Maturo

"Willie B. Hardigan" <Willie.B.Hardigan@microsooft.com> wrote in message
news:uT9lroxZDHA.1680@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Winforms has 2 paths on MONO, one is using PInvoke to call the win32 API
> (there fore dependant on wine) and the other is less compatible but uses
> GTK#.
>
> Linux on the desktop is NOTHING without VMWARE and WINE etc for now
>
> --
>
> Willie B. Hardigan
> Microsoft Product Deactivation Team
> --
>
>
> "Wiktor Zychla" <ieUser@microsoft.com.no.spam> wrote in message
> news:O0T6EmxZDHA.2032@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> > > Many of the components use the builtin windows components
(RichTextBox,
> > > etc).. I believe your programs will (eventually) be usable with Mono
so
> > long
> > > as you don''t use P/Invoke with windows dll''s or override WndProc. Of
> > course
> > > you can still do these things and use Mono with Wine to provide the
> dll''s.
> > >
> > > Mono''s version of windows forms is just a wrapper for their GTK# stuff
I
> > > think.
> >
> > As long as their statements are correct, they are going to implement
> > System.Windows.Forms library that would be handled by Wine, a Windows
> > emulator running on Linux platform. that, of course, would be enormously
> > slow but there is a change that it''s gonna work.
> >
> > in fact, the Wine project is quite advanced now and I will not be
> surprised
> > with a System.Windows.Forms application running on Linux in near future.
> >
> > Wiktor
> >
> >
>
>

Andre

8/20/2003 7:03:00 PM

0

Conclusion:

WinForms cannot be compared to Swing.
Swing is thus superior.
The WinForms API needs to be thought-over and re-designed and
standardized ;)

-Andre

Larry Maturo wrote:
> I''ll probably get shot for mentioning this, but Borland Delphi has a tk
> interface
> they ported to windows, so you can use Delphi to write apps that can be
> compiled on either Linux using Kylix (the Linux version of Delphi) or
> Windows using Delphi. They also have a non-portable Windows only
> library that is slightly more powerful.
>
> -- Larry Maturo
>
> "Willie B. Hardigan" <Willie.B.Hardigan@microsooft.com> wrote in message
> news:uT9lroxZDHA.1680@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>
>>Winforms has 2 paths on MONO, one is using PInvoke to call the win32 API
>>(there fore dependant on wine) and the other is less compatible but uses
>>GTK#.
>>
>>Linux on the desktop is NOTHING without VMWARE and WINE etc for now
>>
>>--
>>
>>Willie B. Hardigan
>>Microsoft Product Deactivation Team
>>--
>>
>>
>>"Wiktor Zychla" <ieUser@microsoft.com.no.spam> wrote in message
>>news:O0T6EmxZDHA.2032@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>
>>>>Many of the components use the builtin windows components
>
> (RichTextBox,
>
>>>>etc).. I believe your programs will (eventually) be usable with Mono
>
> so
>
>>>long
>>>
>>>>as you don''t use P/Invoke with windows dll''s or override WndProc. Of
>>>
>>>course
>>>
>>>>you can still do these things and use Mono with Wine to provide the
>>
>>dll''s.
>>
>>>>Mono''s version of windows forms is just a wrapper for their GTK# stuff
>
> I
>
>>>>think.
>>>
>>>As long as their statements are correct, they are going to implement
>>>System.Windows.Forms library that would be handled by Wine, a Windows
>>>emulator running on Linux platform. that, of course, would be enormously
>>>slow but there is a change that it''s gonna work.
>>>
>>>in fact, the Wine project is quite advanced now and I will not be
>>
>>surprised
>>
>>>with a System.Windows.Forms application running on Linux in near future.
>>>
>>>Wiktor
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Peter Vidler

8/20/2003 7:11:00 PM

0

> WinForms cannot be compared to Swing.
> Swing is thus superior.
> The WinForms API needs to be thought-over and re-designed and
> standardized ;)

Where on earth did you get that from? :) I''d rather write in C++ with Fox or
wxWindows than use Swing. GUIs designed with swing are slow and damn ugly
*ducks*.

Windows forms can (or will) be used with Mono.. you just need to be careful
about what features you use.

Pete

-_-

8/20/2003 7:41:00 PM

0

What about Avalon aka DCE (DX hardware accelereated replacement for GDI+),
would that be available in an unmanaged API aswell as managed?

Would that be new namespaces in the BCLs?

--
-_-

--


"-_-" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:O5cAc#0ZDHA.1740@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Isnt WinForms going to be part of some soft of standard or any other part
of
> the BCLs for that matter? If not why not, if yes what parts, i presume
> everything under System is going to be standard, and everything under
> Microsoft is going to be platform specific and the same for other 3rd
party
> Libs.
>
> --
> -_-
>
> --
>
>
> "Peter Vidler" <pvidler@gawab.com> wrote in message
> news:nJP0b.16062$Kx1.252793@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> > > WinForms cannot be compared to Swing.
> > > Swing is thus superior.
> > > The WinForms API needs to be thought-over and re-designed and
> > > standardized ;)
> >
> > Where on earth did you get that from? :) I''d rather write in C++ with
Fox
> or
> > wxWindows than use Swing. GUIs designed with swing are slow and damn
ugly
> > *ducks*.
> >
> > Windows forms can (or will) be used with Mono.. you just need to be
> careful
> > about what features you use.
> >
> > Pete
> >
> >
>
>

Peter Vidler

8/20/2003 7:41:00 PM

0

-_- wrote:
> Isnt WinForms going to be part of some soft of standard or any other
> part of the BCLs for that matter? If not why not, if yes what parts,
> i presume everything under System is going to be standard, and
> everything under Microsoft is going to be platform specific and the
> same for other 3rd party Libs.

This seems unlikely as System.Windows.Forms looks mostly like a series of
wrappers for native controls to me. Maybe if they reworked it with 100% .net
based controls we could have a more solid (worthy of standardisation)
framework, but not as it is.

Pete

-_-

8/20/2003 7:50:00 PM

0

Then why is it in the System class and not Microsoft namespace?

I would have thought Vendor.* namespaces would be custom stuff

--
-_-

--


"Peter Vidler" <pvidler@gawab.com> wrote in message
news:H9Q0b.376$l65.205@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net...
> -_- wrote:
> > Isnt WinForms going to be part of some soft of standard or any other
> > part of the BCLs for that matter? If not why not, if yes what parts,
> > i presume everything under System is going to be standard, and
> > everything under Microsoft is going to be platform specific and the
> > same for other 3rd party Libs.
>
> This seems unlikely as System.Windows.Forms looks mostly like a series of
> wrappers for native controls to me. Maybe if they reworked it with 100%
..net
> based controls we could have a more solid (worthy of standardisation)
> framework, but not as it is.
>
> Pete
>
>

-_-

8/20/2003 7:52:00 PM

0

C# maybe going forward for standardisation but we need BCLs to be standard
also

--
-_-

--


"-_-" <postmaster@127.0.0.254> wrote in message
news:uL$NwN1ZDHA.1832@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Then why is it in the System class and not Microsoft namespace?
>
> I would have thought Vendor.* namespaces would be custom stuff
>
> --
> -_-
>
> --
>
>
> "Peter Vidler" <pvidler@gawab.com> wrote in message
> news:H9Q0b.376$l65.205@newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net...
> > -_- wrote:
> > > Isnt WinForms going to be part of some soft of standard or any other
> > > part of the BCLs for that matter? If not why not, if yes what parts,
> > > i presume everything under System is going to be standard, and
> > > everything under Microsoft is going to be platform specific and the
> > > same for other 3rd party Libs.
> >
> > This seems unlikely as System.Windows.Forms looks mostly like a series
of
> > wrappers for native controls to me. Maybe if they reworked it with 100%
> .net
> > based controls we could have a more solid (worthy of standardisation)
> > framework, but not as it is.
> >
> > Pete
> >
> >
>
>

Andre

8/20/2003 10:11:00 PM

0



Peter Vidler wrote:
>>WinForms cannot be compared to Swing.
>>Swing is thus superior.
>>The WinForms API needs to be thought-over and re-designed and
>>standardized ;)
>
>
> Where on earth did you get that from? :) I''d rather write in C++ with Fox or
> wxWindows than use Swing. GUIs designed with swing are slow and damn ugly
> *ducks*.

I agree - trust me! But since currently Swing is the only "platform
independant GUI API" available, I''d say Swing rules!

>
> Windows forms can (or will) be used with Mono.. you just need to be careful
> about what features you use.

Yes, but they''ll still be limited in their use and they''ll be depending
upon underlying Graphical Packages (GTk for instance).. it would be
*great* to have something like Swing in .Net! *THEN* It''ll be trully
going forward with the "portability" jargon that Microsoft publicizes.

-Andre

>
> Pete
>
>