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OT: Win8 GUI

Mayayana

3/3/2012 3:17:00 PM

For people who haven't downloaded the Win8 beta,
I came across an interesting article:

http://betanews.com/2012/03/02/how-good-are-windows-8-accessibility-features-for-...

It's written from the point of view of a blind person
trying to use Win8. As such, it's the first article I've
seen that actually described what the GUI is like to
use. It struck me that Metro on Win8 is really about
web services. (Of course that's obvious on WinARM,
but I hadn't quite understood the plan for Win8.)

The main change is that the Start Menu is not so
much gone, but rather the Desktop *is* the Start Menu.
It opens with favored programs and one can then switch
to an all-programs view. This arrangement is far less
efficient than a fly-out Start Menu, thus the implication
is that one doesn't need that efficiency: One doesn't
need a Desktop because one doesn't need files or storage.

People are pressured (forced?) to get a Windows ID/Hotmail
account to log in with. Then once logged in there are
services apps. Since MS wants to rent cloud storage and
convert Windows to a service, the one thing notably missing
from Win8 is the file system. (It's there, but must be
found through multiple steps.)

This all reminds me of AOL in the 90s, where one would
log in to find a menu of commercial options. (After first
"choosing" to field a credit card offer later rather than
now.) When I first encountered that on a computer I
had to call a friend to ask, "where's the Internet?". AOL
didn't block access to the Internet, but they made it a
hard-to-find option among the AOL shopping and chat
groups, so that new people would think that AOL was the
Internet. Metro seems to take the same approach. From
what I can see, Metro is none other than AOL for
high-speed -- an always-on shopping/services venue.

I could imagine some percentage of new people getting
a Win8 PC and simply not understanding the idea of software,
nor of a file system. They will know only Metro services/apps,
which come through the Windows store. Their photos, email
and docs will be online. I can imagine someone using old
software, which then opens a SaveAs dialogue, and then
that person calls me to ask, "Where does this SaveAs thing
go? Will Internet Explorer be able to find it later if I SaveAs
what I doing?"
29 Answers

Dee Earley

3/5/2012 1:03:00 PM

0

On 03/03/2012 15:16, Mayayana wrote:
> Since MS wants to rent cloud storage and convert Windows to a
> service, the one thing notably missing from Win8 is the file system.
> (It's there, but must be found through multiple steps.)

Step 1, Click "Explorer"

That's a new variant of "multiple" I've not head before.

> I could imagine some percentage of new people getting
> a Win8 PC and simply not understanding the idea of software,
> nor of a file system. They will know only Metro services/apps,
> which come through the Windows store. Their photos, email
> and docs will be online.

I've already reported bugs that the photo and video metro apps don't
actually see my photos or videos despite being in configured folders.
I hope you have too.

--
Deanna Earley (dee.earley@icode.co.uk)
i-Catcher Development Team
http://www.icode.co.uk...

iCode Systems

(Replies direct to my email address will be ignored.
Please reply to the group.)

Mayayana

3/5/2012 2:29:00 PM

0

| > (It's there, but must be found through multiple steps.)

| Step 1, Click "Explorer"

Yes, I see you're right. Or one can mouse to
the lower left.

| I've already reported bugs that the photo and video metro apps don't
| actually see my photos or videos despite being in configured folders.

I downloaded the beta installer this weekend. I
haven't tried anything so involved as setting up
software and personal files. I'm just trying out
the "paradigm". Though I did try a quick VBScript
to make sure WSH is still there. Windows itself seems
to be mostly unchanged.

* I'm continually struck by how out-of-place those tiles
are on a PC screen. It's a giant space completely
wasted. The phone GUI just doesn't translate.

* The only way I've found to close programs in Metro
is Ctrl + Esc. There doesn't seem to be any mouse
option. I did a quick search online and found that's
a common issue. One isn't supposed to close programs!
(I still don't know how one clicks another tile while IE,
offering no control box or even a menu, is filling the
screen.)

* Articles I read said the Start Menu was accessed by
mousing over the lower left corner, but that only toggles
between Desktop and Metro. As far as I can find there
is no Start Menu as such.

* Having tried out Win8 I have an even stronger impression
than before that this is not a new Windows GUI at all. Rather,
it's Windows with AOL-for-high-speed as the default program,
runninh at startup.

| I hope you have too.
|
You hope I have reported bugs? So far Microsoft hasn't
offered to pay me for testing their software. (I can't imagine
what the hold-up is. Mr. Ballmer must be on vacation.)


MikeB

3/5/2012 2:32:00 PM

0

Curious if you have tried the registry hack (bypass Metro Startup) mentioned
by Nigel Bufton on 2/15 in the " Does Win8 support even matter?" thread?


"Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote in message
news:jitcft$ulo$1@dont-email.me...
> For people who haven't downloaded the Win8 beta,
> I came across an interesting article:
>
> http://betanews.com/2012/03/02/how-good-are-windows-8-accessibility-features-for-...
>
> It's written from the point of view of a blind person
> trying to use Win8. As such, it's the first article I've
> seen that actually described what the GUI is like to
> use. It struck me that Metro on Win8 is really about
> web services. (Of course that's obvious on WinARM,
> but I hadn't quite understood the plan for Win8.)
>
> The main change is that the Start Menu is not so
> much gone, but rather the Desktop *is* the Start Menu.
> It opens with favored programs and one can then switch
> to an all-programs view. This arrangement is far less
> efficient than a fly-out Start Menu, thus the implication
> is that one doesn't need that efficiency: One doesn't
> need a Desktop because one doesn't need files or storage.
>
> People are pressured (forced?) to get a Windows ID/Hotmail
> account to log in with. Then once logged in there are
> services apps. Since MS wants to rent cloud storage and
> convert Windows to a service, the one thing notably missing
> from Win8 is the file system. (It's there, but must be
> found through multiple steps.)
>
> This all reminds me of AOL in the 90s, where one would
> log in to find a menu of commercial options. (After first
> "choosing" to field a credit card offer later rather than
> now.) When I first encountered that on a computer I
> had to call a friend to ask, "where's the Internet?". AOL
> didn't block access to the Internet, but they made it a
> hard-to-find option among the AOL shopping and chat
> groups, so that new people would think that AOL was the
> Internet. Metro seems to take the same approach. From
> what I can see, Metro is none other than AOL for
> high-speed -- an always-on shopping/services venue.
>
> I could imagine some percentage of new people getting
> a Win8 PC and simply not understanding the idea of software,
> nor of a file system. They will know only Metro services/apps,
> which come through the Windows store. Their photos, email
> and docs will be online. I can imagine someone using old
> software, which then opens a SaveAs dialogue, and then
> that person calls me to ask, "Where does this SaveAs thing
> go? Will Internet Explorer be able to find it later if I SaveAs
> what I doing?"
>
>
>


Mayayana

3/5/2012 3:14:00 PM

0

| Curious if you have tried the registry hack (bypass Metro Startup)
mentioned
| by Nigel Bufton on 2/15 in the " Does Win8 support even matter?" thread?
|

No, I haven't even tried installing software yet.
So far I've just played around with finding what
options Metro provides. I've read that there's
supposed to be a talk tomorrow about "Metro for
business", in which MS people will explain more
details. So far MS seems to be very cagey about
exactly what changes/options will be in the final
version:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/some-possibly-not-so-good-news-for-business-users-with-windo...

I suppose their refusal to be straight with people
is really just one big, public focus group.

Dee Earley

3/5/2012 3:22:00 PM

0

> I downloaded the beta installer this weekend. I
> haven't tried anything so involved as setting up
> software and personal files. I'm just trying out
> the "paradigm". Though I did try a quick VBScript

I've been using it as a main OS for a few months now.

> * I'm continually struck by how out-of-place those tiles
> are on a PC screen. It's a giant space completely
> wasted. The phone GUI just doesn't translate.

I don't really find that, what I do notice is the full screen switch
when I hit the Windows key, which is probably more down to my habit of
using it to show the task bar.

> * The only way I've found to close programs in Metro
> is Ctrl + Esc. There doesn't seem to be any mouse
> option. I did a quick search online and found that's
> a common issue. One isn't supposed to close programs!
> (I still don't know how one clicks another tile while IE,
> offering no control box or even a menu, is filling the
> screen.)

They are suspended so won't use any significant CPU time, but they do
still show in alt+tab. The Consumer preview now allows Alt+f4 to close
metro apps.

> * Articles I read said the Start Menu was accessed by
> mousing over the lower left corner, but that only toggles
> between Desktop and Metro. As far as I can find there
> is no Start Menu as such.

No, its the start screen which is (currently) only in Metro.

> | I hope you have too.
> |
> You hope I have reported bugs? So far Microsoft hasn't
> offered to pay me for testing their software.

Why're you using a preview/beta version then? They only release them to
get feedback and allow stuff to be tested.

--
Deanna Earley (dee.earley@icode.co.uk)
i-Catcher Development Team
http://www.icode.co.uk...

iCode Systems

(Replies direct to my email address will be ignored.
Please reply to the group.)

Tom Shelton

3/5/2012 3:35:00 PM

0

Mayayana laid this down on his screen :
>> Curious if you have tried the registry hack (bypass Metro Startup)
>> mentioned by Nigel Bufton on 2/15 in the " Does Win8 support even
>> matter?" thread?
>>
>
> No, I haven't even tried installing software yet.
> So far I've just played around with finding what
> options Metro provides. I've read that there's
> supposed to be a talk tomorrow about "Metro for
> business", in which MS people will explain more
> details. So far MS seems to be very cagey about
> exactly what changes/options will be in the final
> version:
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/some-possibly-not-so-good-news-for-business-users-with-windo...
>
> I suppose their refusal to be straight with people
> is really just one big, public focus group.

I doubt that you will significant use of windows 8 in business for
quite sometime - if ever. Except maybe in the form of slates or
tablets - since those are becomming more popular, but they aren't going
to replace the majority of pc's (at least not yet). Windows 7 is just
now rolling out at a lot of companies.

--
Tom Shelton

unknown

3/5/2012 8:26:00 PM

0

"Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote in message
news:jj2if7$djc$1@dont-email.me...
> * The only way I've found to close programs in Metro
> is Ctrl + Esc. There doesn't seem to be any mouse
> option. I did a quick search online and found that's
> a common issue. One isn't supposed to close programs!
> (I still don't know how one clicks another tile while IE,
> offering no control box or even a menu, is filling the
> screen.)

Perhaps it's like cellphones. Try pressing and holding the left mouse button
on the tiles and see if any menu show up. That's how one do a right click on
a phone/tablet. Pressing and holding the Home key on a phone/tablet usually
works as if you pressed Alt+Tab in Windows, which shows the list of running
applications. I am not sure how to close them other than by killing the
process in the phone or tablet Settings-->Applications menu.

MikeB

3/5/2012 11:52:00 PM

0

You're not gonna be happy with the high fences you are going to have to
climb to install an application on Win8:

<:http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/heres-how-windows-8-will-allow-administrators-to-sideload-and-manage-apps...

Link to a root cert required for installs, if I read it correctly.

"Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote in message
news:jj2if7$djc$1@dont-email.me...
>| > (It's there, but must be found through multiple steps.)
>
> | Step 1, Click "Explorer"
>
> Yes, I see you're right. Or one can mouse to
> the lower left.
>
> | I've already reported bugs that the photo and video metro apps don't
> | actually see my photos or videos despite being in configured folders.
>
> I downloaded the beta installer this weekend. I
> haven't tried anything so involved as setting up
> software and personal files. I'm just trying out
> the "paradigm". Though I did try a quick VBScript
> to make sure WSH is still there. Windows itself seems
> to be mostly unchanged.
>
> * I'm continually struck by how out-of-place those tiles
> are on a PC screen. It's a giant space completely
> wasted. The phone GUI just doesn't translate.
>
> * The only way I've found to close programs in Metro
> is Ctrl + Esc. There doesn't seem to be any mouse
> option. I did a quick search online and found that's
> a common issue. One isn't supposed to close programs!
> (I still don't know how one clicks another tile while IE,
> offering no control box or even a menu, is filling the
> screen.)
>
> * Articles I read said the Start Menu was accessed by
> mousing over the lower left corner, but that only toggles
> between Desktop and Metro. As far as I can find there
> is no Start Menu as such.
>
> * Having tried out Win8 I have an even stronger impression
> than before that this is not a new Windows GUI at all. Rather,
> it's Windows with AOL-for-high-speed as the default program,
> runninh at startup.
>
> | I hope you have too.
> |
> You hope I have reported bugs? So far Microsoft hasn't
> offered to pay me for testing their software. (I can't imagine
> what the hold-up is. Mr. Ballmer must be on vacation.)
>
>


Mayayana

3/6/2012 12:01:00 AM

0

| They are suspended so won't use any significant CPU time, but they do
| still show in alt+tab. The Consumer preview now allows Alt+f4 to close
| metro apps.

I find it very odd that anyone should need to know
hotkeys for anything, with no mouse equivalent.

| > You hope I have reported bugs? So far Microsoft hasn't
| > offered to pay me for testing their software.
|
| Why're you using a preview/beta version then? They only release them to
| get feedback and allow stuff to be tested.
|

You're such a good doobie. :) I'm trying it out
to know what to expect, to see what will work in
the future, and out of sociological curiosity. I've
never understood why people are willing to work
as software testers for a multi-billion dollar
corporation without being paid.


Mayayana

3/6/2012 12:05:00 AM

0

| You're not gonna be happy with the high fences you are going to have to
| climb to install an application on Win8:
|
|
<:http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/heres-how-windows-8-will-allow-administrators-to-sideload-and-manage-apps...
|
| Link to a root cert required for installs, if I read it correctly.

I think (hope) they're talking specifically about Metro
software. I'll have to try installing some of my own
software to see how it works.