[lnkForumImage]
TotalShareware - Download Free Software
Confronta i prezzi di migliaia di prodotti.
Asp Forum
 Home | Login | Register | Search 


 

Forums >

microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

Does Win8 support even matter?

Karl E. Peterson

2/14/2012 9:57:00 PM

Sounds like they're taking the traditional UI out for good, and going
"all in" on the touchscreen garbage. I guess they figured their choice
was to die slowly or quickly, and they chose the latter?

Windows 8 is not all about Tablets, it's about the future
Hal's (Im)Perfect Vision
http://hal2020.com/2012/02/12/windows-8-is-not-all-about-tablets-its-about-t...

(The comments bear browsing, too.)

--
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfre...
192 Answers

Mayayana

2/14/2012 11:14:00 PM

0

| Sounds like they're taking the traditional UI out for good, and going
| "all in" on the touchscreen garbage. I guess they figured their choice
| was to die slowly or quickly, and they chose the latter?
|

The author seems to have impressive credentials, but what
he says is at odds with other info. He says it will be all Metro,
that WinRT is the new API, and later, in the comments, says
there will always be native code software. That sounds to me
like the same misinformation Mr. Sinofsky is spreading: deliberately
confusing the definition of native code by including WinRT.
WinRT is unarguably a limited interface. And according to
what I can find it's not really an API. It's certainly not native
code, given that one way to use it is via script, like an HTA.

-----------------------

http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/blogs/sasha/archive/2011/09/15/winrt-and-net-in-wind...

"the WinRT APIs call into the Win32 DLLs - so they are not a replacement but
rather a wrapper, an API flavor, on top of Win32. (Historical note: Windows
used to have a feature called "environment subsystems", which can be roughly
described as API flavors. WinRT is not an environment subsystem - it is a
library on top of the Win32 environment subsystem.)"

-------------------------------

This sounds very similar to the .Net scam -- creating a
limited wrapper that kicks developers out of the system,
while presenting that wrapper as though it were a new,
improved API.

Something I find lacking in Hal's whole presentation (in
addition to the lack of evidence that the Desktop will be
eliminated altogether) is any sort of logic to what he's
saying. Windows all-Metro, with touch? Why? People
will plug in a keyboard and mouse to do graphics, video
editing, Word docs.... but they'll also be swiping their
screen? Why? The only reason he gives is "modernization".
And people won't be able to get any native-code
software other than MS products? Yet MS will have
redefined everything as native code so it won't matter?
(I was reading today that Mozilla is trying to figure out
how to get Firefox onto Metro, hoping MS will give them
some native APIs to do it. That should be interesting
to watch. My impression at this point is that Metro gets
IE and MS Office. Period. Beyond that only trinkets.)

I can't even imagine the scenario Hal is describing. What
I can imagine is a scenario where MS has the corporate
market but doesn't want to lose out on new developments.
So they're trying to cover all the bases. And that dovetails
with their long-cherished wish to take control away from
anyone other than MS -- whether it be developers or
end-users -- so that they can charge for all computer
functionality rather than just charging for the OS.

Frankly, in several years of following what MS does, I've
never seen any indication that their "planning" is anything
other than seat-of-the-pants decisions motivated by
greed and playing catch-up. Maybe there's more going on
behind the scenes, but it certainly doesn't appear that way
on the surface.

-----

Hal Berenson throws around striking numbers about tablet
sales: "17 million in Q3 to 27 million in Q4". However, I've also
seen articles noting that a lot of people with tablets aren't
using them. They just happen to make good gifts. Q4 includes
Christmas. And I've yet to hear anyone say they use a tablet
like a computer.

It seems that one of the constants in the industry is for
people (especially Microsoft) to talk up the things that could
be profitable, whether they're realistic or not. Remember the
"thin client" craze of 2000? Everyone was going to use
web-apps with a tiny PC the size of a book. Ten years later
that's still a far-fetched idea. But it's an idea that promises
to offer the ability to charge for tool use itself and not just
the tools. So the big corporations, their lackeys, and the
analysts who stoke the bandwagons keep bringing the idea
back.


Karl E. Peterson

2/14/2012 11:33:00 PM

0

Mayayana explained on 2/14/2012 :
>> Sounds like they're taking the traditional UI out for good, and going
>> "all in" on the touchscreen garbage. I guess they figured their choice
>> was to die slowly or quickly, and they chose the latter?
>>
>
> The author seems to have impressive credentials, but what
> he says is at odds with other info.

Agreed. I know a guy who spent years writing kernel code. Deep within
the darkest bowels of Windows. Says he:

"BS. The first ARM kernel booted, after a fashion, around Christmas
2010, and had been in the works for a few months."

and:

"The stuff that Berenson claims was in the pipeline long before the
iPad and the iPhone was, in any reality that is not mainly driven by
hallucinogenic drugs, completely bogus. The whole thing had nothing
whatsoever to do with the Longhorn Reset (that was long before) and had
everything to do with Apple and Sinofsky."

> He says it will be all Metro,
> that WinRT is the new API, and later, in the comments, says
> there will always be native code software.

But also that any "long-running computational code" wouldn't be
suitable, and need to run in some sort of x86 sandbox, or something.
So clearly, what you and I and everyone else here understand as "native
code" isn't at all what's being talked about here.

> That sounds to me
> like the same misinformation Mr. Sinofsky is spreading: deliberately
> confusing the definition of native code by including WinRT.

I don't dare quote my friend on SS. <g>

> WinRT is unarguably a limited interface. And according to
> what I can find it's not really an API. It's certainly not native
> code, given that one way to use it is via script, like an HTA.

Yeah, makes me starting humming that song...

Welcome to the Grand illusion
Come on in and see what's happening
Pay the price, get your tickets for the show
The stage is set, the band starts playing
Suddenly your heart is pounding
Wishing secretly you were a star.

But don't be fooled by the radio
The TV or the magazines
They show you photographs of how your life should be
But they're just someone else's fantasy
So if you think your life is complete confusion
Because you never win the game
Just remember that it's a Grand illusion
And deep inside we're all the same.
We're all the same...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7...

> This sounds very similar to the .Net scam -- creating a
> limited wrapper that kicks developers out of the system,
> while presenting that wrapper as though it were a new,
> improved API.

"Somebody else's fantasy..."

> Something I find lacking in Hal's whole presentation (in
> addition to the lack of evidence that the Desktop will be
> eliminated altogether)

Seems to be taken as a given by those testing current releases? I'm
asking around a little to find out.

> is any sort of logic to what he's
> saying. Windows all-Metro, with touch? Why?

Indeed. "Because.", maybe?

They "got away" with The Ribbon, remember?

> People
> will plug in a keyboard and mouse to do graphics, video
> editing, Word docs.... but they'll also be swiping their
> screen? Why? The only reason he gives is "modernization".

I don't get it, either. A convertable approach makes far more sense.
Being able to pull the top down when you want to really have fun, or
put it back up for those quick trips in the rain.

> And people won't be able to get any native-code
> software other than MS products? Yet MS will have
> redefined everything as native code so it won't matter?

Heh.

> (I was reading today that Mozilla is trying to figure out
> how to get Firefox onto Metro, hoping MS will give them
> some native APIs to do it. That should be interesting
> to watch. My impression at this point is that Metro gets
> IE and MS Office. Period. Beyond that only trinkets.)

Well, that's another good point, isn't it? Both Mozilla and Chrome are
trying to be "the interface" of choice. There was a guy in the
comments saying the same -- that Chrome was his UI. Who needs Windows,
or Office, if that trend catches fire? (Yeah, yeah, just us creative
types, I know. <g> Still, the browser-based office apps are getting
pretty good!)

> I can't even imagine the scenario Hal is describing. What
> I can imagine is a scenario where MS has the corporate
> market but doesn't want to lose out on new developments.
> So they're trying to cover all the bases.

But they also said to hell with the corporate market when the did the
Ribbon, eh? Not as vehemently, but...?

> Frankly, in several years of following what MS does, I've
> never seen any indication that their "planning" is anything
> other than seat-of-the-pants decisions motivated by
> greed and playing catch-up. Maybe there's more going on
> behind the scenes, but it certainly doesn't appear that way
> on the surface.

Agreed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon...

--
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfre...

Tony Toews

2/15/2012 1:09:00 AM

0

On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:33:29 -0800, Karl E. Peterson <karl@exmvps.org>
wrote:

>They "got away" with The Ribbon, remember?

I like the ribbon in Word and Excel. Much easier to find things but
then I'm a novice with those programs.

Tony

Karl E. Peterson

2/15/2012 1:20:00 AM

0

Tony Toews was thinking very hard :
>> They "got away" with The Ribbon, remember?
>
> I like the ribbon in Word and Excel. Much easier to find things but
> then I'm a novice with those programs.

I'm at the "Acceptance" stage, myself. <g>

How do you feel about losing a Start button? Command prompt?

--
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfre...

GS

2/15/2012 2:36:00 AM

0

Tony Toews wrote :
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:33:29 -0800, Karl E. Peterson <karl@exmvps.org>
> wrote:
>
>> They "got away" with The Ribbon, remember?
>
> I like the ribbon in Word and Excel. Much easier to find things but
> then I'm a novice with those programs.
>
> Tony

I was really miffed when the Ribbon showed up. So much so that I bought
Farpoint's Spread.ocx so I could reproduce my Excel addins as
stand-alone apps via VB6. Now, I'm converting them to C++ for when the
vbruntime finally (if ever) gets dumped. (I doubt we'll be allowed to
redistribute it! Nice if we could, though!!)

I'm gradually getting used to the Ribbon as I use Excel, though it's
not going as well as I'd like because I have the old menus set up on
the Addins tab for better productivity.<g>

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-sep...
ClassicVB Users Regroup! comp.lang.basic.visual.misc

Mayayana

2/15/2012 5:04:00 AM

0


| > Something I find lacking in Hal's whole presentation (in
| > addition to the lack of evidence that the Desktop will be
| > eliminated altogether)
|
| Seems to be taken as a given by those testing current releases? I'm
| asking around a little to find out.
|

Strange, isn't it, that it's even possible for so much
uncertainty/confusion to exist as the "preview" is being
tested and the beta is imminent?


Nigel Bufton

2/15/2012 7:57:00 AM

0

Karl E. Peterson pretended :
> Sounds like they're taking the traditional UI out for good, and going "all
> in" on the touchscreen garbage. I guess they figured their choice was to die
> slowly or quickly, and they chose the latter?
>
> Windows 8 is not all about Tablets, it's about the future
> Hal's (Im)Perfect Vision
> http://hal2020.com/2012/02/12/windows-8-is-not-all-about-tablets-its-about-t...
>
> (The comments bear browsing, too.)

The traditional UI is there - you need to change search for RPEnabled
in
the registry and change the values from 1 to 0. Most websites
relating
to this refer to only one instance - but I needed to change 3 or 4
instances.

I then created another user named "Metro" with no changes. I can now
log in to the Metro Interface or the Classic Windows interface.

Henning

2/15/2012 12:19:00 PM

0


"Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> skrev i meddelandet
news:jhelc4$hnm$1@dont-email.me...
> Sounds like they're taking the traditional UI out for good, and going "all
> in" on the touchscreen garbage. I guess they figured their choice was to
> die slowly or quickly, and they chose the latter?
>
> Windows 8 is not all about Tablets, it's about the future
> Hal's (Im)Perfect Vision
> http://hal2020.com/2012/02/12/windows-8-is-not-all-about-tablets-its-about-t...
>
> (The comments bear browsing, too.)
>
> --
> .NET: It's About Trust!
> http://vfre...
>
>

Another blog.

http://coolthingoftheday.blogspot.com/2012/02/6-on-8-will-vb6-be-supported-on-wi...

/Henning

Mayayana

2/15/2012 2:37:00 PM

0

| The traditional UI is there - you need to change search for RPEnabled
| in
| the registry and change the values from 1 to 0.

Great. It's not even in beta yet and it already requires
secret Registry hacks to work properly.


Karl E. Peterson

2/15/2012 6:10:00 PM

0

GS expressed precisely :
> apps via VB6. Now, I'm converting them to C++ for when the vbruntime finally
> (if ever) gets dumped. (I doubt we'll be allowed to redistribute it! Nice if
> we could, though!!)

Huh? http://support.microsoft.com...

--
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfre...