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Mike Williams

11/12/2011 9:08:00 AM

It would appear that Micro$oft are continuing to pursue their goal of world
domination by applying pressure on OEMs to force them to use the UEFI secure
booting system in a way that makes it difficult, and in some cases
impossible if firmware override is not provided, for the purchaser of a
Windows 8 PC to run other operating systems. What a bunch of bastards! Well
I for one will not be buying any machine that has Windows 8 installed, or
any machine that is signed for Windows 8 whether it has Windows 8 installed
on it or not. Time to go back to building my own machines I think. The cost
advantage of doing so has been eroded over the years by the bulk buying
power of the big OEMs so it wasn't really worth continuing to do it, but it
is definitely worth doing it now, if for no other reason than to escape the
clutches of the evil Anti Christ, Micro$oft.

Mike


17 Answers

Mayayana

11/12/2011 2:36:00 PM

0

| It would appear that Micro$oft are continuing to pursue their goal of
world
| domination by applying pressure on OEMs to force them to use the UEFI
secure
| booting system in a way that makes it difficult, and in some cases
| impossible if firmware override is not provided, for the purchaser of a
| Windows 8 PC to run other operating systems. What a bunch of bastards!
Well
| I for one will not be buying any machine that has Windows 8 installed, or
| any machine that is signed for Windows 8 whether it has Windows 8
installed
| on it or not.

The OEMs can pre-install keys for Linux. And/or they
can provide a shut-off option. With the latter option, either
way Microsoft wins. Either they can claim that Windows is
the only safe option, or they can claim that Linux is "unsafe
by design".

But it's hard to fault Microsoft's request for secure boot.
The real question is how much they might be strong-arming
the OEMs to shut out Linux.

Personally I'm more concerned with the pre-boot networking
capability, and the long-term implications of all this. Computers
of all kinds are increasingly being redefined as broadcast receivers
for retail cloud/entertainment products. Pre-boot networking could
allow for Microsoft's Product Validation, LiveID, forced updates,
etc. to run before one even has access to the PC. It's a great idea
for furthering the redefinition of who owns the PC. ("The only safe
software is embedded software!") Pre-boot networking could also
enable DRM and gov't. surveillance by mandating or causing PCs
to report their own activity (in order to protect the victims of
child molestors, of course).

The scariest part is the Orwellian implications. But the more
insidious and likely problem is simply corporate, retail takeover
of computing. (I saw a great quote from Steve Jobs last week.
He vetoed having windows in the new Apple plant because "if
people are allowed to open things that just allows them to screw
things up". Good riddance, at least, to one more charlatan
"genius" and his iKool-Aid.)

| Time to go back to building my own machines I think. The cost
| advantage of doing so has been eroded over the years by the bulk buying
| power of the big OEMs so it wasn't really worth continuing to do it

Last time I needed a new PC I could have bought a Compaq
Presario for $320 US. And a copy of Win7 would have come
with that. Just the parts to build it myself ended up costing
a bit more, despite already having a hard disk and a case I could
use. But the OEM machines are chintzy and limited. There's
not much upgradeability. Often the hardware is custom-sized,
unreplaceable with normal hardware. The OEMs are barely
scraping by. They can't afford to make good product -- or
provide decent support -- at the prices they charge.


DanS

11/12/2011 3:02:00 PM

0

"Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> wrote in
news:j9lcvu$oi2$1@dont-email.me:

> It would appear that Micro$oft are continuing to pursue
> their goal of world domination by applying pressure on OEMs
> to force them to use the UEFI secure booting system in a
> way that makes it difficult, and in some cases impossible
> if firmware override is not provided, for the purchaser of
> a Windows 8 PC to run other operating systems. What a bunch
> of bastards! Well I for one will not be buying any machine
> that has Windows 8 installed, or any machine that is signed
> for Windows 8 whether it has Windows 8 installed on it or
> not. Time to go back to building my own machines I think.
> The cost advantage of doing so has been eroded over the
> years by the bulk buying power of the big OEMs so it wasn't
> really worth continuing to do it, but it is definitely
> worth doing it now, if for no other reason than to escape
> the clutches of the evil Anti Christ, Micro$oft.

If Microsoft is so bad, why do you use Windows and VB at all ?

A martyr ?

You are confused, highly confused. The 'Secure Boot' & UEFI is not a Windows8 thing,
but instead built into the MB, like in BIOS. And it could find ts way onto all MBs, not
necessarily only OEMS that pre-install Windows, so buiding your own may not be a
way to avoid it.

The OEMS and hardware producers have already stated that they have no intention of
blocking you from using any OS you desire and that the UEFI implementation will have
an option switch to turn it on or off in BIOS.

The links below dispell the FUD.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/leading-pc-makers-confirm-no-windows-8-plo...
out-linux/4185

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-dont-blame-us-if-windows-...
boot-requirement-blocks-linux-dual-boot/10781

(No, I'm not a MS apologist, and right now I'm writing this while using Kubuntu and
running XNews under WINE. I am, however, a realist, that can receive and digest
information of my own accord, and have decided that 'Secure Boot' means absolutely
nothing if it's a BIOS switchable setting. Who cares.)



Mike Williams

11/12/2011 8:37:00 PM

0

"Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote in message
news:j9m089$t3v$1@dont-email.me...

> The OEMs can pre-install keys for Linux.

Well, they can't really install a key for Linux in a generic way, although
they can install a key for a vendor's specific version of Linux (unless of
course the vendor does not have the required resources or the OEMs have not
already been strongarmed by Micro$oft in order to make it difficult for
competing operating system vendors).

> And/or they can provide a shut-off option.

Yes, they can, but motherboard and BIOS manufacturers will not waste time
providing facilities that do not make them any money, especially after they
have been bribed by Micro$oft to make it difficult for other operating
system vendors. In fact many hardware manufacturers might not provide a shut
off facility at all. Micro$oft have already proved that they are adept at
bribing people to do their bidding, as is evidenced by their clearly illegal
and gangster like activities in Jamaica some years ago, a country which they
saw as the gateway to Africa for them, and a country in which they bribed a
number of people do do their illegal bidding, and I'm sure they would have
no qualms about behaving like corporate gangsters again. And, of course,
having a competitor's operating system relying on shutting off something
that Micro$oft can describe as a safety feature would work only in
Micro$oft's favour.

> With the latter option, either way Microsoft wins. Either they
> can claim that Windows is the only safe option, or they can
> claim that Linux is "unsafe by design".

Yep. That's the case. I wonder how much money the Micro$oft corporate
ganssters are pumping into that?

> But it's hard to fault Microsoft's request for secure boot.
> The real question is how much they might be strong-arming
> the OEMs to shut out Linux.

Oh surely they wouldn't do that? Micro$oft? You talk as though they are a
bunch of gangsters!

> The scariest part is the Orwellian implications.

Yep.

> But the more insidious and likely problem is simply corporate,
> retail takeover of computing.

Well, that's clearly the aim. That is what Micro$oft is after. They want to
be in the same position as Apple in that respect, but without the need to
actually make or design the hardware themselves.

> Last time I needed a new PC I could have bought a Compaq
> Presario for $320 US. And a copy of Win7 would have come
> with that. Just the parts to build it myself ended up costing
> a bit more, despite already having a hard disk and a case I
> could use.

Yep. That's what I was saying. Many years ago you could save a fortune by
building your own system, but those days have largely gone now,

> But the OEM machines are chintzy and limited. There's
> not much upgradeability. Often the hardware is
> custom-sized, unreplaceable with normal hardware.

That's the main problem with buying an OEM machine. Each time I purchase a
machine (sometimes for myself but often for others) I make sure that the
motherboard is fairly generic and that it uses standard components, and
particularly that it has proper slots for the sound card and graphics card
and all the memory slots are not filled up with low capacity chips, and
preferably that it has a power supply with a decent output, so that it is at
least easily upgradeable.

> The OEMs are barely scraping by. They can't afford
> to make good product -- or provide decent support
> -- at the prices they charge.

That's true. The money is in the software these days, not the hardware,
especially if you are a corporate gangster.

Mike




Mike Williams

11/12/2011 8:43:00 PM

0


"DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> wrote in message
news:Xns9F9B661B88EF9thisnthatroadrunnern@216.196.97.131...

> You are confused, highly confused.

No I am not.

> The 'Secure Boot' & UEFI is not a Windows8 thing, but
> instead built into the MB, like in BIOS.

That is EXACTLY what I said! You are the one who is confused! But it is not
yet common, and it is being used by Micro$oft as a lever against their
competitors. They are not honest people, these Micro$oft people. They are a
bunch of corporate gangsters, as is evidenced by their gangster like
activities in Jamaica some years ago,

> The OEMS and hardware producers have already stated that they
> have no intention of blocking you from using any OS you desire and
> that the UEFI implementation will have an option switch to turn it on
> or off in BIOS.

But that itself works in Micro$oft's interest. That's why they are spending
so much bribe money pushing it so hard.

Mike



Thorsten Albers

11/12/2011 11:33:00 PM

0

Mike Williams <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> schrieb im Beitrag
<j9lcvu$oi2$1@dont-email.me>...
> It would appear that Micro$oft are continuing to pursue their goal of
world
> domination by applying pressure on OEMs to force them to use the UEFI
secure
> booting system in a way that makes it difficult, and in some cases
> impossible if firmware override is not provided, for the purchaser of a
> Windows 8 PC to run other operating systems.

What has this to do with VB?

--
Thorsten Albers

gudea at gmx.de

Mike Williams

11/13/2011 11:35:00 AM

0

"Thorsten Albers" <gudea@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:01cca193$72ce9f30$6d01a8c0@k8s8x...
> Mike Williams <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> schrieb im Beitrag
> <j9lcvu$oi2$1@dont-email.me>...
>> It would appear that Micro$oft are continuing to
>> pursue their goal of world domination by applying
>> pressure on OEMs to . . . . . . .
>
> What has this to do with VB?
>

It has got about as much to do with VB as have your own answers in the
thread in which someone asked for recommendations for C++ books.

Mike

Mike Williams

11/13/2011 12:15:00 PM

0

"DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> wrote in message
news:Xns9F9B661B88EF9thisnthatroadrunnern@216.196.97.131...

> If Microsoft is so bad, why do you use Windows and VB at all ?

Because I like VB6. Micro$oft do actually produce some things that I like,
and I use those things because I like them, despite the fact that the
company which produced them is dishonest and unscrupulous.

> (No, I'm not a MS apologist, and right now I'm writing this while using
> Kubuntu and running XNews under WINE. I am, however, a realist,
> that can receive and digest information of my own accord, and have
> decided that 'Secure Boot' means absolutely nothing if it's a BIOS
> switchable setting.

Actually it means a lot whether it is switchable or not, and it means even
more if Micro$oft manage to bribe the major OEMs firstly into making it the
default setting or, with a few more bribes, into not providing a switch for
it at all. Micro$oft have a lot to gain either way and they will use their
financial muscle to achieve their aims, just as they attempted to illegally
do in Jamaica regarding another matter.

Even if Micro$oft fail to throw enough money at the some or all of the OEMs
to persuade them to make it not switchable they will almost certainly
persuade them to make it the default setting, and they will certainly
persuade them to include the Windows 8 key in the default BIOS settings.
That can cause problems with smaller scale producers of alternative
operating systems who might not have the resources to persuade OEMs to
include their own keys in the default BIOS settings. I know that keys can be
fed into the BIOS by the end user, but that will on a 'per machine' basis,
which will certainly cause problems for producers of alternative operating
systems who want to compete with the 'OS on a Stick' thing, which is where
Micro$oft want you to go today.

> Who cares.)

Well I care, and I'm sure lots of others care too.

Mike



Thorsten Albers

11/13/2011 1:08:00 PM

0

Mike Williams <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> schrieb im Beitrag
<j9oa08$cma$1@dont-email.me>...
> It has got about as much to do with VB as have your own answers in the
> thread in which someone asked for recommendations for C++ books.

Nonsense. 'OO' in VB and C++ vs. OS booting and lament about bad, bad, bad
MS.

--
Thorsten Albers

gudea at gmx.de

Mike Williams

11/13/2011 3:31:00 PM

0

"Thorsten Albers" <gudea@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:01cca205$422021c0$6d01a8c0@k8s8x...
>> Mike Williams <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> schrieb im Beitrag
> <j9oa08$cma$1@dont-email.me>...
>> It has got about as much to do with VB as have your own answers
>> in the thread in which someone asked for recommendations for
>> C++ books.
>
> Nonsense. 'OO' in VB and C++

Well in that case let's all start answering questions about Commodore BASIC
and Amiga BASIC and all sorts of other BASICS which all have at least
something in common with VB6!

Mike


DanS

11/13/2011 4:13:00 PM

0

"Mike Williams" <Mike@WhiskyAndCoke.com> wrote in
news:j9ocbs$oqr$1@dont-email.me:


>> (No, I'm not a MS apologist, and right now I'm writing
>> this while using Kubuntu and running XNews under WINE. I
>> am, however, a realist, that can receive and digest
>> information of my own accord, and have decided that
>> 'Secure Boot' means absolutely nothing if it's a BIOS
>> switchable setting.
>
> Actually it means a lot whether it is switchable or not,

Uh.....I said, if it's a siwtchable thing, who cares.

> and it means even more if Micro$oft manage to bribe the
> major OEMs firstly into making it the default setting

Of course it's going to be the default setting. If you have a pre-installed Windows8
system, why wouldn't it be the default ?

<SNIP>

> Even if Micro$oft fail to throw enough money at the some or
> all of the OEMs to persuade them to make it not switchable

And the articles I linked were the OEMS saying they WOULD be switchable.


>
> > Who cares.)
>
> Well I care, and I'm sure lots of others care too.

To address your (troll like) creative snipping taking my comment completely out of
context, my 'Who cares' was following the sentence:

".... and have decided that 'Secure Boot' means absolutely nothing if it's a BIOS
switchable setting. Who cares."