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comp.lang.ruby

SPAM from Usenet

Eric Hodel

6/5/2009 9:30:00 PM

It seems the gateway is passing a lot more spam these days.

Looking at my mail headers I see:

> Received: from Usenet via a Usenet to mail gateway located at
> comp.lang.ruby. This service provided as a courtesy
> to the ruby-talk mailing list. If this message is SPAM, its
> ultimate origin is Usenet, not this gateway program. All
> subscribers to the ruby-talk mailing list agree to receive the
> Usenet postings made to comp.lang.ruby via this gateway. Please
> see http://www.ruby-lang.org/ruby-talk-usenet-p....

That URL is 404.
71 Answers

James Gray

6/5/2009 9:43:00 PM

0

On Jun 5, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Eric Hodel wrote:

> It seems the gateway is passing a lot more spam these days.

Yeah, I'm leery to do any detection because I suspect it would become
a maintenance nightmare as posters ask, why was my message blocked?
So, if we want to go that route, we probably need to pass it to a
maintainer with more time to watch over it first.

If we all agree it's become more of a hinderance than it's worth, I
can certainly shut it down.

I'm also open to other options.

> Looking at my mail headers I see:
>
>> Received: from Usenet via a Usenet to mail gateway located at
>> comp.lang.ruby. This service provided as a courtesy
>> to the ruby-talk mailing list. If this message is SPAM, its
>> ultimate origin is Usenet, not this gateway program. All
>> subscribers to the ruby-talk mailing list agree to receive the
>> Usenet postings made to comp.lang.ruby via this gateway. Please
>> see http://www.ruby-lang.org/ruby-talk-usenet-p....
>
> That URL is 404.

Yeah, that notice has been there since the dawn of time. The link has
never worked on my watch. I've just never touched it due to not
knowing the history of it or what is suppose to be there.

James Edward Gray II

Eric Hodel

6/5/2009 10:14:00 PM

0

On Jun 5, 2009, at 14:42, James Gray wrote:
> On Jun 5, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Eric Hodel wrote:
>> It seems the gateway is passing a lot more spam these days.
>
> Yeah, I'm leery to do any detection because I suspect it would
> become a maintenance nightmare as posters ask, why was my message
> blocked? So, if we want to go that route, we probably need to pass
> it to a maintainer with more time to watch over it first.
>
> If we all agree it's become more of a hinderance than it's worth, I
> can certainly shut it down.

For the record, I wasn't even considering suggesting this.

> I'm also open to other options.
>
>> Looking at my mail headers I see:
>>
>>> Received: from Usenet via a Usenet to mail gateway located at
>>> comp.lang.ruby. This service provided as a courtesy
>>> to the ruby-talk mailing list. If this message is SPAM, its
>>> ultimate origin is Usenet, not this gateway program. All
>>> subscribers to the ruby-talk mailing list agree to receive the
>>> Usenet postings made to comp.lang.ruby via this gateway. Please
>>> see http://www.ruby-lang.org/ruby-talk-usenet-p....
>>
>> That URL is 404.
>
> Yeah, that notice has been there since the dawn of time. The link
> has never worked on my watch. I've just never touched it due to not
> knowing the history of it or what is suppose to be there.

Could you replace the URL with a contact address, even if it's just
"Please email ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org for gateway support"?

John W Higgins

6/5/2009 10:18:00 PM

0

[Note: parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Eric Hodel <drbrain@segment7.net> wrote:

> On Jun 5, 2009, at 14:42, James Gray wrote:
>
>> On Jun 5, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Eric Hodel wrote:
>>
>>> It seems the gateway is passing a lot more spam these days.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, I'm leery to do any detection because I suspect it would become a
>> maintenance nightmare as posters ask, why was my message blocked? So, if we
>> want to go that route, we probably need to pass it to a maintainer with more
>> time to watch over it first.
>>
>> If we all agree it's become more of a hinderance than it's worth, I can
>> certainly shut it down.
>>
>
> For the record, I wasn't even considering suggesting this.
>
> I'm also open to other options.
>>
>> Looking at my mail headers I see:
>>>
>>> Received: from Usenet via a Usenet to mail gateway located at
>>>> comp.lang.ruby. This service provided as a courtesy
>>>> to the ruby-talk mailing list. If this message is SPAM, its
>>>> ultimate origin is Usenet, not this gateway program. All
>>>> subscribers to the ruby-talk mailing list agree to receive the
>>>> Usenet postings made to comp.lang.ruby via this gateway. Please
>>>> see http://www.ruby-lang.org/ruby-talk-usenet-p....
>>>>
>>>
>>> That URL is 404.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, that notice has been there since the dawn of time. The link has
>> never worked on my watch. I've just never touched it due to not knowing the
>> history of it or what is suppose to be there.
>>
>
> Could you replace the URL with a contact address, even if it's just "Please
> email ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org for gateway support"?
>
>
I have to ask why would we want people sending more spam to the list to
complain about the spam we all just received? (This email being Exhibit
A.....)

John

James Gray

6/5/2009 10:53:00 PM

0

On Jun 5, 2009, at 5:17 PM, John W Higgins wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Eric Hodel <drbrain@segment7.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 5, 2009, at 14:42, James Gray wrote:
>>
>>> On Jun 5, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Eric Hodel wrote:
>>>
>>>> It seems the gateway is passing a lot more spam these days.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, I'm leery to do any detection because I suspect it would
>>> become a
>>> maintenance nightmare as posters ask, why was my message blocked?
>>> So, if we
>>> want to go that route, we probably need to pass it to a maintainer
>>> with more
>>> time to watch over it first.
>>>
>>> If we all agree it's become more of a hinderance than it's worth,
>>> I can
>>> certainly shut it down.
>>>
>>
>> For the record, I wasn't even considering suggesting this.
>>
>> I'm also open to other options.
>>>
>>> Looking at my mail headers I see:
>>>>
>>>> Received: from Usenet via a Usenet to mail gateway located at
>>>>> comp.lang.ruby. This service provided as a courtesy
>>>>> to the ruby-talk mailing list. If this message is SPAM, its
>>>>> ultimate origin is Usenet, not this gateway program. All
>>>>> subscribers to the ruby-talk mailing list agree to receive the
>>>>> Usenet postings made to comp.lang.ruby via this gateway. Please
>>>>> see http://www.ruby-lang.org/ruby-talk-usenet-p....
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That URL is 404.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, that notice has been there since the dawn of time. The link
>>> has
>>> never worked on my watch. I've just never touched it due to not
>>> knowing the
>>> history of it or what is suppose to be there.
>>>
>>
>> Could you replace the URL with a contact address, even if it's just
>> "Please
>> email ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org for gateway support"?
>>
>>
> I have to ask why would we want people sending more spam to the list
> to
> complain about the spam we all just received? (This email being
> Exhibit
> A.....)

The gateway is a community resource. If they can't come to us, the
community, for help, where should they go?

I think Eric's request seems totally reasonable.

If the spam we are getting here increases because users and emailing
us about problems, well that tells us something: the gateway is
annoying people. When that happens, we will need to agree on a
solution to that problem. Right?

James Edward Gray II

Aaron Turner

6/5/2009 10:56:00 PM

0

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Eric Hodel<drbrain@segment7.net> wrote:
> On Jun 5, 2009, at 14:42, James Gray wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 5, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Eric Hodel wrote:
>>>
>>> It seems the gateway is passing a lot more spam these days.
>>
>> Yeah, I'm leery to do any detection because I suspect it would become a
>> maintenance nightmare as posters ask, why was my message blocked? =A0So,=
if we
>> want to go that route, we probably need to pass it to a maintainer with =
more
>> time to watch over it first.
>>
>> If we all agree it's become more of a hinderance than it's worth, I can
>> certainly shut it down.
>
> For the record, I wasn't even considering suggesting this.

Well I'll be the bad guy then. I'd totally suggest that.

Personally, I'm about -> <- close to just sending all email from the
gateway into my trash folder. This is the only list I subscribe to
(about 25) which allows non-members to post without any authentication
or moderator approval. The result is I get much more spam via
ruby-talk then all my other lists combined.


--=20
Aaron Turner
http://s...
http://tcpreplay.s... - Pcap editing and replay tools for Unix & Win=
dows
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin

Trans

6/5/2009 11:07:00 PM

0



On Jun 5, 6:52=A0pm, James Gray <ja...@grayproductions.net> wrote:

> If the spam we are getting here increases because users and emailing =A0
> us about problems, well that tells us something: =A0the gateway is =A0
> annoying people. =A0When that happens, we will need to agree on a =A0
> solution to that problem. =A0Right?

I wonder how many people are using Usenet to interface with this list?
If it is few, I wonder if they might be encouraged to use another
service to do so. I know of at least three other interfaces besides
the standard email method, namely Google Groups, Gmane and Ruby Forum.
Is there some advantage to using Usenet over these other methods?

I manage the Google Group and I try to delete all the SPAM I come
across, so anything that can reduce it is helpful to me.

T.

James Gray

6/5/2009 11:20:00 PM

0

On Jun 5, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Aaron Turner wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Eric Hodel<drbrain@segment7.net>
> wrote:
>> On Jun 5, 2009, at 14:42, James Gray wrote:
>>>
>>> On Jun 5, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Eric Hodel wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It seems the gateway is passing a lot more spam these days.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I'm leery to do any detection because I suspect it would
>>> become a
>>> maintenance nightmare as posters ask, why was my message blocked?
>>> So, if we
>>> want to go that route, we probably need to pass it to a maintainer
>>> with more
>>> time to watch over it first.
>>>
>>> If we all agree it's become more of a hinderance than it's worth,
>>> I can
>>> certainly shut it down.
>>
>> For the record, I wasn't even considering suggesting this.
>
> Well I'll be the bad guy then. I'd totally suggest that.
>
> Personally, I'm about -> <- close to just sending all email from the
> gateway into my trash folder. This is the only list I subscribe to
> (about 25) which allows non-members to post without any authentication
> or moderator approval. The result is I get much more spam via
> ruby-talk then all my other lists combined.

The gateway has been around for many years. It joins the two
communities as one.

I imagine that was more important in the past when there were a much
smaller number of people on both sides. Still, I know some of our
Usenet friends very well by now and would really miss their posts.

Of course, this is obviously a tradeoff. We get some spam due to the
gateway and it seems to be going up. We obviously need to weight
these issues and decide what is important to us.

James Edward Gray II

James Gray

6/5/2009 11:25:00 PM

0

On Jun 5, 2009, at 5:13 PM, Eric Hodel wrote:

> On Jun 5, 2009, at 14:42, James Gray wrote:
>> On Jun 5, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Eric Hodel wrote:
>>> Looking at my mail headers I see:
>>>
>>>> Received: from Usenet via a Usenet to mail gateway located at
>>>> comp.lang.ruby. This service provided as a courtesy
>>>> to the ruby-talk mailing list. If this message is SPAM, its
>>>> ultimate origin is Usenet, not this gateway program. All
>>>> subscribers to the ruby-talk mailing list agree to receive the
>>>> Usenet postings made to comp.lang.ruby via this gateway. Please
>>>> see http://www.ruby-lang.org/ruby-talk-usenet-p....
>>>
>>> That URL is 404.
>>
>> Yeah, that notice has been there since the dawn of time. The link
>> has never worked on my watch. I've just never touched it due to
>> not knowing the history of it or what is suppose to be there.
>
> Could you replace the URL with a contact address, even if it's just
> "Please email ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org for gateway support"?

I've made this change as a stop-gap fix while we discuss. See [ruby-
talk: 338535].

James Edward Gray II

Joshua Collins

6/6/2009 12:21:00 AM

0

[Note: parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

Yes, there is a bit of spam getting through, but it is not enough to annoy
me. I just hit 'report spam' in my Gmail account and I do not get any more
mail from that user.

If I happen to come home one day and I have 25 spam emails due to the
gateway, then I might unsubscribe and use google groups or some other means
to interact with the community.

Until then, I will just use the spam tools my email provider has. There are
many more emails I get that are quality than are spam ;-)

JC

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 7:25 PM, James Gray <james@grayproductions.net>wrote:

> On Jun 5, 2009, at 5:13 PM, Eric Hodel wrote:
>
> On Jun 5, 2009, at 14:42, James Gray wrote:
>>
>>> On Jun 5, 2009, at 4:30 PM, Eric Hodel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Looking at my mail headers I see:
>>>>
>>>> Received: from Usenet via a Usenet to mail gateway located at
>>>>> comp.lang.ruby. This service provided as a courtesy
>>>>> to the ruby-talk mailing list. If this message is SPAM, its
>>>>> ultimate origin is Usenet, not this gateway program. All
>>>>> subscribers to the ruby-talk mailing list agree to receive the
>>>>> Usenet postings made to comp.lang.ruby via this gateway. Please
>>>>> see http://www.ruby-lang.org/ruby-talk-usenet-p....
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That URL is 404.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, that notice has been there since the dawn of time. The link has
>>> never worked on my watch. I've just never touched it due to not knowing the
>>> history of it or what is suppose to be there.
>>>
>>
>> Could you replace the URL with a contact address, even if it's just
>> "Please email ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org for gateway support"?
>>
>
> I've made this change as a stop-gap fix while we discuss. See [ruby-talk:
> 338535].
>
> James Edward Gray II
>
>

James Gray

6/6/2009 1:49:00 AM

0

On Jun 5, 2009, at 7:21 PM, Joshua Collins wrote:

> Yes, there is a bit of spam getting through, but it is not enough to
> annoy me. I just hit 'report spam' in my Gmail account and I do not
> get any more mail from that user.

Please never do this!

Gateway messages come from a address I setup for the purpose. You are
not reporting the spammer. Instead you are reporting me. Our host
has already threatened to shut the gateway down once due to these
complaints. If the complaint volume increases, we will be forcefully
terminated.

The headers of gated messages point out this detail:

> Received: from Usenet via a Usenet to mail gateway located at
> comp.lang.ruby. This service provided as a courtesy
> to the ruby-talk mailing list. If this message is SPAM, its
> ultimate origin is Usenet, not this gateway program. All
> subscribers to the ruby-talk mailing list agree to receive the
> Usenet postings made to comp.lang.ruby via this gateway. Please
> email ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org for gateway support.

Thanks.

James Edward Gray II