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Re: PHP Developer highly interested in Python (web development) with some open questions...

Christian Heimes

2/24/2008 12:45:00 PM

Tamer Higazi wrote:
> - What is the Zope Applikation Server? Is it also a Webserver like the
> Apache or Tomcat Webserver?

Zope is much more than a webserver. It's a web application server
including a fast object database (ACID, support clustering and MVCC), a
powerful plugin architecture, builtin security and many, many more.

Read http://en.wikipedia.org...

> - Is there a way of Round Tripp engineering based on UML XMI Files to
> generate python files (with it's dependencies) ????

Plone and Archetypes (based on Zope) have a tool named ArchGenXML. It
takes UML XMI files and generates content types, workflows and products
for the Plone CMS.

> - Let us assume, I want to write a Web application in Python (what I did
> now in PHP5) and want to distribute my work under commercial usage.
>
> Can I encrypt my work and generate Licence Files for Customers who would
> purchase my End-Sollution like with:

Source code encryption can't stop people from reading or stealing your
code. Microsoft tries it, Apple tries it and even the RIAA tries it.
None of them had success in the past. :]

A proper service contract is more important.

Christian
4 Answers

bruno.desthuilliers@gmail.com

2/24/2008 8:42:00 PM

0

On 24 fév, 13:44, Christian Heimes <li...@cheimes.de> wrote:
> Tamer Higazi wrote:
> > - What is the Zope Applikation Server? Is it also a Webserver like the
> > Apache or Tomcat Webserver?
>
> Zope is much more than a webserver. It's a web application server
> including a fast object database (ACID, support clustering and MVCC), a
> powerful plugin architecture, builtin security and many, many more.

It's also some kind of a Rube Goldberg thingie...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldbe...

If you're into web applications, better to have a look at Pylons or
Django IMHO.

Diez B. Roggisch

2/24/2008 9:45:00 PM

0

>
> It's also some kind of a Rube Goldberg thingie...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldbe...
>
> If you're into web applications, better to have a look at Pylons or
> Django IMHO.

You are entitled to your opinion, but calling Zope a
Rube-Goldberg-machine is strong. To put it mildly. How about sharing
some of the reasons for this?

Just for the record: I'm a Turbogears user and even commiter - so I'm
certainly not from the zope zealotry department.

Diez

Bruno Desthuilliers

2/25/2008 8:43:00 AM

0

Diez B. Roggisch a écrit :
>>
>> It's also some kind of a Rube Goldberg thingie...
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldbe...
>>
>> If you're into web applications, better to have a look at Pylons or
>> Django IMHO.
>
> You are entitled to your opinion, but calling Zope a
> Rube-Goldberg-machine is strong. To put it mildly. How about sharing
> some of the reasons for this?

A few years experience with it - both using it 'barebones' and working
with cmf-based apps like Plone and CPS. There are quite a few very
interesting and/or clever things in Zope, and a lot to learn from it's
strong and weak spots, but in it's current state, Zope2.x is layers
above layers of ill-documented base classes and not-always-that-clever
hacks. And Zope3 - which is indeed way cleaner - seems to be wanting to
be more xmlish than any Java thingie ever.

Gabriel Genellina

2/26/2008 6:40:00 AM

0

En Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:42:39 -0200, Bruno Desthuilliers
<bruno.42.desthuilliers@wtf.websiteburo.oops.com> escribió:

> Diez B. Roggisch a écrit :
>>>
>>> It's also some kind of a Rube Goldberg thingie...
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldbe...
>>>
>>> If you're into web applications, better to have a look at Pylons or
>>> Django IMHO.
>>
>> You are entitled to your opinion, but calling Zope a
>> Rube-Goldberg-machine is strong. To put it mildly. How about sharing
>> some of the reasons for this?
>
> A few years experience with it - both using it 'barebones' and working
> with cmf-based apps like Plone and CPS. There are quite a few very
> interesting and/or clever things in Zope, and a lot to learn from it's
> strong and weak spots, but in it's current state, Zope2.x is layers
> above layers of ill-documented base classes and not-always-that-clever
> hacks. And Zope3 - which is indeed way cleaner - seems to be wanting to
> be more xmlish than any Java thingie ever.

I completely agree. Zope had a strong and powerful idea in the beginnings:
let's publish objects on the Web! let's make a URL to invoke an object's
methods with arguments! let's use persistent objects!
Compared with the CGI spaghetti code mixing HTML and application logic and
infrastructure in the same script (PHP/perl/ASP/whatever) that was so
common some years ago, Zope was a blessing.
But the original idea degenerated in a mamooth-like framework, rigid,
convoluted, and hard to use. In Zope2 there is an extremely deep class
hierarchy almost for anything (30 and more base classes wasn't uncommon -
who can tell from *where* an attribute comes from?). And so much black
magic - strange name conventions for all, that probably originated from
the stone age, when Python had no decorators, no writeable function
attributes, no metaclasses... and that lasted for a long time, Zope was
stuck at using old-style classes years after they were introduced in
Python 2.2
I might consider using Plone -not Zope alone!- if I had to build a portal
exactly like Plone likes it. But nothing more. There are many other
alternatives right now so I can stay far away from Zope, even given my
masochistic tendencies.

--
Gabriel Genellina