Phil McGregor
6/18/2014 10:05:00 PM
On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 08:31:06 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:
>On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 09:00:12 -0400, Phil McGregor <aspqrz@tpg.com.au>
>wrote:
>
>>>Perhaps - but that's a huge difference from saying he himself was
>>>insane. I have a personal disdain for drivers of BMWs but that's due
>>>to what I see as "I own the road" and "You drive like an asshole!"
>>>type behaviours I've seen on the roads as opposed to any specific
>>>knowledge about any particular BMW driver. You may argue that my
>>>disdain is irrational - but based on nearly 20 years of posting here
>>>I'd be astonished if you thought you were talking to an insane
>>>person.
>>
>>I dunno, are you advocating that BMW drivers should all be ... I
>>dunno, tattooed with an 'I am an idiot' on their foreheads or
>>something?
>>
>>*That* would be insane.
>>
>>;-)
>
>As my kids would say ROFLMAO - though I will say I tend to drive with
>more paranoia than usual around such drivers as my experience suggests
>that's the safe way to deal with a group who tends to change lanes
>without signalling on a regular basis....or other vehicular inanities.
Home in Oz it's all about *Volvo* Drivers ... well known to be ...
insane? crazy? Driving @ 30 in a 60 zone etc. etc. etc.
>I suspect we all have our quirks - but in the case of the NSDAP THEIR
>quirks tended to be majorly violent and a danger to the peace of
>Europe.
Indeed they were.
>>>>If you strip it from Hitler, then you get 'not Hitler' ... and there
>>>>is no reason to believe that 'not Hitler' would be as successful (for
>>>>some values of 'successful') as a dictator *unless* he was crazy in
>>>>exactly the same way as Hitler was.
>
>Agreed - Saddam Hussein didn't have irrational hatred of Sunni, Shia
>or any other group besides the Kurds (he even used gas against
>them....hmmm). And of course anyone who spoke against his regime.
I am sure that both Shia and Sunni inhabitants of the artificial
construct created by Sykes-Picot and called 'Iraq' were quite in
agreement that the *Kurds* were nasty, evil, people who should be
treated harshly ... even exterminated. And probably still think that
way, from what one can tell in the news media.
>>>>It is unlikely, for example, that without a carefully selected
>>>>outsider group as targets for hatred as a political tool, the Nazis
>>>>would not have been as successful in growing from a bunch of crazy
>>>>rabble-rousing losers in Munich Beer Halls.
>>>
>>>Why not? The early Nazis hated Communists at least as much as Jews.
>>>The SA fought constantly with Communist gangs continuously both before
>>>and after January 30, 1933.
>>
>>Indeed they did. And, AIUI from my visit to Berlin in 2003, there were
>>areas of Berlin that Nazi policing authorities dared not patrol in
>>less than squad strength *throughout the war* ... Communist
>>strongholds, in effect.
>>
>>The hatred of Jews was a step beyond the hatred of communism, and,
>>while I can see some Germans wanting to hurt communists badly, even
>>imprison them and treat them brutally, I don't see them seeing them as
>>'life not worthy of life' ... German political thought has always had
>>a strong social justice/socialist trend that Communism merely took to
>>an extreme.
>
>Yup - I'm not equating Nazi-Communist violence with the Final Solution
>but by the standards of 1927-35 it was more even. The organized murder
>machine we call the Final Solution came later.
Even in Sachsenhausen and, later, in the other Camps, having a
Communist patch on your uniform was merely a sentence to much harsher
treatment where they probably didn't care whether you lived or died
.... wearing the yellow Star of David was a death sentence that might
be delayed slightly - something of a significant difference, I would
have thought.
>>Remember, Hitler only ever managed to score around 30% of the national
>>vote in free and fair elections, and that was declining when he was
>>put into power by that idiot Hindenburg.
>
>It was higher than that but nowhere near 50% for sure. On the other
>hand that was typical of the Weimar republic for the percentage of
>popular vote received by the #1 party of the various coalitions that
>led Germany pre-Hitler. (It's also fairly typical of votes received by
>post-war coalition parties that operate in non-first-past-the-post
>systems)
Slightly higher, perhaps, and that was in the *second last* election
before he was given power ... in the *last* election prior to that,
the Nazi percentage of the vote *dropped* ...
>>The Jews were still seen as 'the other' but large swathes of people
>>who would never ever have voted for Hitler, however.
>
>A surprising number of SPD supporters chosen Hitler over the KPD. Post
>1945 none would admit to it but the statistics seem persuasive.
Desperation? Not believing that what he said was actually what he was
going to do?
Like all the idiots home in Oz who voted for the world's worst liar,
the Mad Monk (Tony Abbott), for PM?
He's, sadly, *my* MP ... and a complete f*****g arsehole who anyone
with a single active grey cell could have figured was lying through
his teeth about every single thing he said. Sadly, many voters in Oz
lack even a single active brain cell ... but try find any, other than
rusted on Liberal voters, who will admit to voting for the bastard
today ... you'd find, oh, approximately? None, or maybe damn all!
>>>For what it's worth, the SA routinely put rocks through the windows of
>>>Jewish-owned businesses well before 1933. There were occasional
>>>beatings as well.
>>
>>Indeed. All indicative that Herr Kraus is a crazy Fanboi.
>
>Certainly the world would have been a VERY different place post 1945
>had the Final Solution ACTUALLY only started following the Wannsee
>conference.
Yes. The Hungarian Jews would probably have survived in larger
numbers, for a start.
>>In criminal profiling terms I suspect we're talking 'organized' vs.
>>'disorganised' ...
>
>Hitler would have been even more deadly had the NSDAP had the degree
>of organization the CPSU had in that era never mind the level typical
>of America 1942-45. The productivity gains many attribute to Speer
>wouldn't have been possible had the German economy functioned on that
>level from 1933 forward. Had the productivity of 1943-44 been achieved
>earlier in the war ... well that's one of the more plausible
>pro-German scenarios out there. It still doesn't produce a war winning
>navy for September 1940 though (grin)
My understanding is that the German economy was hamstrung by the fact
that the rearmament/expansion programs were scheduled to come on line
in the period 1942-43+ ... when the war broke out, unexpectedly, over
Poland in 1939, Hitler was faced with a choice ...
* abandon the rearmament/expansion programs for short term
productivity gains at the expense of larger, longer term, gains
or
* continue with the rearmament/expansion programs and accept the
relatively slower, lower level, increase in productivity before they
started coming on line
.... he obviously chose the second.
A lot of what Speer takes credit for was, in fact, the work of others
who had been in charge before, including (but not limited to) Fritz
Todt ... and a lot of the rest is outright lies and massaging of the
figures ...
Phil