Asp Forum - On the Niceties of Asking For what You Want (was Re: Want some information....

Rick DeNatale

5/12/2009 1:20:00 PM

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Robert Klemme
<shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 2009/5/12 Arun Kumar <arunkumar@innovaturelabs.com>:
>> =A0 I want to know about authentication in ruby. Is it possible to scrap
>> html of those sites which require basic authentication.
>
> I am not a native speaker but for all I know "want" is considered
> impolite among English speaking people.

I wouldn't say so. To want carries the same basic connotation as
vouloir in French, I don't know that je veut, or je voudrais is more
impolite than say j'aimerais and I'd think that the average native
English speaker would consider both I want, or I would like to be
socially acceptable expressions of a desire for something.

If we are talking about faux amis, one of the tricky French-English
ones is demander, which translates properly in English to "to ask"
whereas do demand in English means something more like exiger in
French, and would probably be perceived as a step up the rudeness
scale.

--=20
Rick DeNatale

Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denh...
Twitter: http://twitter.com/Ri...
WWR: http://www.workingwithrails.com/person/9021-ric...
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ri...

5 Answers

Eleanor McHugh

5/12/2009 2:22:00 PM

On 12 May 2009, at 14:19, Rick DeNatale wrote:
> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Robert Klemme
> <shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> 2009/5/12 Arun Kumar <arunkumar@innovaturelabs.com>:
>>> I want to know about authentication in ruby. Is it possible to
>>> scrap
>>> html of those sites which require basic authentication.
>>
>> I am not a native speaker but for all I know "want" is considered
>> impolite among English speaking people.
>
> I wouldn't say so. To want carries the same basic connotation as
> vouloir in French, I don't know that je veut, or je voudrais is more
> impolite than say j'aimerais and I'd think that the average native
> English speaker would consider both I want, or I would like to be
> socially acceptable expressions of a desire for something.

I can only speak from a British perspective, but 'want' does sound
slightly too demanding compared to 'need' or 'like' in this context. A
more natural (and oblique) phrasing would be along the lines of 'I was
wondering if anyone knows how to handle authentication in Ruby?" which
cares much less of an emotional subtext than the more direct approach.

> If we are talking about faux amis, one of the tricky French-English
> ones is demander, which translates properly in English to "to ask"
> whereas do demand in English means something more like exiger in
> French, and would probably be perceived as a step up the rudeness
> scale.

The only people in England who routinely use 'demand' tend to be very
disgruntled retired army officers and the representatives of trade
unions ;)

Ellie

Eleanor McHugh
Games With Brains
http://slides.games-with-...
----
raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds_to? :reason

Rick DeNatale

5/12/2009 3:47:00 PM

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Eleanor McHugh
<eleanor@games-with-brains.com> wrote:
> On 12 May 2009, at 14:19, Rick DeNatale wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Robert Klemme
>> <shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> 2009/5/12 Arun Kumar <arunkumar@innovaturelabs.com>:
>>>>
>>>> =A0I want to know about authentication in ruby. Is it possible to scra=
p
>>>> html of those sites which require basic authentication.
>>>
>>> I am not a native speaker but for all I know "want" is considered
>>> impolite among English speaking people.
>>
>> I wouldn't say so. =A0To want carries the same basic connotation as
>> vouloir in French, I don't know that =A0je veut, or je voudrais is more
>> impolite than say j'aimerais and I'd think that the average native
>> English speaker would consider both I want, or I would like to be
>> socially acceptable expressions of a desire for something.
>
> I can only speak from a British perspective, but 'want' does sound slight=
ly
> too demanding compared to 'need' or 'like' in this context. A more natura=
l
> (and oblique) phrasing would be along the lines of 'I was wondering if
> anyone knows how to handle authentication in Ruby?" which cares much less=
of
> an emotional subtext than the more direct approach.

Fair enough, but may have the temerity to suggest that civility would
best be preserved if we follow at least the part of Postel's law about
being liberal in what we accept, particularly in a 'place' frequented
by a mix of American's, Brit's, other native 'English' speakers, and
non-native speakers who have various ideas/knowledge of what's
proper/conservative to produce.

--=20
Rick DeNatale

Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denh...
Twitter: http://twitter.com/Ri...
WWR: http://www.workingwithrails.com/person/9021-ric...
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ri...

Eleanor McHugh

5/12/2009 4:26:00 PM

On 12 May 2009, at 16:47, Rick DeNatale wrote:
> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Eleanor McHugh
> <eleanor@games-with-brains.com> wrote:
>> I can only speak from a British perspective, but 'want' does sound
>> slightly
>> too demanding compared to 'need' or 'like' in this context. A more
>> natural
>> (and oblique) phrasing would be along the lines of 'I was wondering
>> if
>> anyone knows how to handle authentication in Ruby?" which cares
>> much less of
>> an emotional subtext than the more direct approach.
>
> Fair enough, but may have the temerity to suggest that civility would
> best be preserved if we follow at least the part of Postel's law about
> being liberal in what we accept, particularly in a 'place' frequented
> by a mix of American's, Brit's, other native 'English' speakers, and
> non-native speakers who have various ideas/knowledge of what's
> proper/conservative to produce.

Oh definitely.

Ellie

Eleanor McHugh
Games With Brains
http://slides.games-with-...
----
raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds_to? :reason

Srijayanth Sridhar

5/12/2009 4:53:00 PM

[Note: parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

I wonder how much of this discussion is colored by the poster's history :)

Jayanth

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 9:55 PM, Eleanor McHugh <
eleanor@games-with-brains.com> wrote:

> On 12 May 2009, at 16:47, Rick DeNatale wrote:
>
>> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Eleanor McHugh
>> <eleanor@games-with-brains.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I can only speak from a British perspective, but 'want' does sound
>>> slightly
>>> too demanding compared to 'need' or 'like' in this context. A more
>>> natural
>>> (and oblique) phrasing would be along the lines of 'I was wondering if
>>> anyone knows how to handle authentication in Ruby?" which cares much less
>>> of
>>> an emotional subtext than the more direct approach.
>>>
>>
>> Fair enough, but may have the temerity to suggest that civility would
>> best be preserved if we follow at least the part of Postel's law about
>> being liberal in what we accept, particularly in a 'place' frequented
>> by a mix of American's, Brit's, other native 'English' speakers, and
>> non-native speakers who have various ideas/knowledge of what's
>> proper/conservative to produce.
>>
>
> Oh definitely.
>
>
>
> Ellie
>
> Eleanor McHugh
> Games With Brains
> http://slides.games-with-...
> ----
> raise ArgumentError unless @reality.responds_to? :reason
>
>
>

Robert Dober

5/12/2009 6:31:00 PM

On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@gmail.com> wr=
ote:
> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Robert Klemme
> <shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> 2009/5/12 Arun Kumar <arunkumar@innovaturelabs.com>:
>>> =A0 I want to know about authentication in ruby. Is it possible to scra=
p
>>> html of those sites which require basic authentication.
>>
>> I am not a native speaker but for all I know "want" is considered
>> impolite among English speaking people.
>
> I wouldn't say so. =A0To want carries the same basic connotation as
> vouloir in French, I don't know that =A0je veut, or je voudrais is more
> impolite than say j'aimerais and I'd think that the average native
> English speaker would consider both I want, or I would like to be
> socially acceptable expressions of a desire for something.
Let us see, you just enter the boulangerie and are in front of a very
charming lady half your age, I really cannot imagine someone saying
"je veux", this is really inaceptable and I have never heard it.

"Je voudrais" is fine of course, "je souhaiterais" is very beautiful.
I was very shocked by "I want", but I am notoriously sensible (c.f.
Lazy Bastard thread).
And this is the real reason I am so picky with your French here, you
did *not* support me in that thread, any excuses ;)))

Seriously, it is very important to know for Rubiests how to get des
croissants, pains aux chocolat, brioches ou encore des chaussons
pommes... when in France ou au Qu=E9bec (ou avez-vous d'autres
sp=E9cialit=E9s)
I guess I should start preparing dinner...
>
> If we are talking about faux amis, one of the tricky French-English
> ones is demander, which translates properly in English to "to ask"
> whereas do demand in English means something more like exiger in
> French, and would probably be perceived as a step up the rudeness
> scale.
Well as we are already OT here, I prefer true enemies aux faux amis ;).

Demander is very strong indeed, it is the police who "demande les
personnes de sortir". But always consider the context ;)

"Pourrais-je vous demander un service, Madame."

Very polite indeed.

Cheers
Robert

>
> --
> Rick DeNatale
>
> Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denh...
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/Ri...
> WWR: http://www.workingwithrails.com/person/9021-ric...
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ri...
>
>

--=20
Si tu veux construire un bateau ...
Ne rassemble pas des hommes pour aller chercher du bois, pr=E9parer des
outils, r=E9partir les t=E2ches, all=E9ger le travail=85 mais enseigne aux
gens la nostalgie de l=92infini de la mer.

If you want to build a ship, don=92t herd people together to collect
wood and don=92t assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to
long for the endless immensity of the sea.

--
Antoine de Saint-Exup=E9ry

comp.lang.ruby

On the Niceties of Asking For what You Want (was Re: Want some information....

Rick DeNatale

Eleanor McHugh

Rick DeNatale

Eleanor McHugh

Srijayanth Sridhar

Robert Dober

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