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microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

Ten Years to the Day, They pull the Plug?

Karl E. Peterson

3/2/2011 12:06:00 AM

Ten years ago today, Microsoft gathered the Classic VB MVPs together in
Redmond to discuss what had gone so horribly wrong with VFred, and why
we weren't all just thrilled to be moving to it.

We told 'em then that they'd broken it beyond repair and almost beyond
recognition, and that this represented the death of the language.

Well, it took them exactly 10 years to fully assimilate that,
apparently. If you put any stock in this:

http://twitter.com/icon_g/statuses/4262177...

Btw, I'm not sure it's just a coincidence that the day prior to this
meeting, the day all the VB MVPs were arriving in town, was the day of
the Nisqually Quake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Nisqually_... Chew on that,
eh?! :-)

--
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfre...
30 Answers

Bob Butler

3/2/2011 12:16:00 AM

0


"Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message
news:ikk1lv$hkg$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Ten years ago today, Microsoft gathered the Classic VB MVPs together in
> Redmond to discuss what had gone so horribly wrong with VFred, and why we
> weren't all just thrilled to be moving to it.
>
> We told 'em then that they'd broken it beyond repair and almost beyond
> recognition, and that this represented the death of the language.
>
> Well, it took them exactly 10 years to fully assimilate that, apparently.
> If you put any stock in this:
>
> http://twitter.com/icon_g/statuses/4262177...

If they do kill VFred they could always try creating a .Net-based version of
VB to replace it! <g>

Karl E. Peterson

3/2/2011 12:25:00 AM

0

Bob Butler expressed precisely :
> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote...
>> Ten years ago today, Microsoft gathered the Classic VB MVPs together in
>> Redmond to discuss what had gone so horribly wrong with VFred, and why we
>> weren't all just thrilled to be moving to it.
>>
>> We told 'em then that they'd broken it beyond repair and almost beyond
>> recognition, and that this represented the death of the language.
>>
>> Well, it took them exactly 10 years to fully assimilate that, apparently.
>> If you put any stock in this:
>>
>> http://twitter.com/icon_g/statuses/4262177...
>
> If they do kill VFred they could always try creating a .Net-based version of
> VB to replace it! <g>

I was ready to say, "That'd work for me! <g>", but really, I dunno. I
can't imagine trusting 'em again.

--
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfre...

Karl E. Peterson

3/2/2011 2:14:00 AM

0

Karl E. Peterson presented the following explanation :
> Ten years ago today, Microsoft gathered the Classic VB MVPs together in
> Redmond to discuss what had gone so horribly wrong with VFred, and why we
> weren't all just thrilled to be moving to it.
>
> We told 'em then that they'd broken it beyond repair and almost beyond
> recognition, and that this represented the death of the language.
>
> Well, it took them exactly 10 years to fully assimilate that, apparently. If
> you put any stock in this:
>
> http://twitter.com/icon_g/statuses/4262177...
>
> Btw, I'm not sure it's just a coincidence that the day prior to this meeting,
> the day all the VB MVPs were arriving in town, was the day of the Nisqually
> Quake. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Nisqually_... Chew on that,
> eh?! :-)

The (Next) Exodus begins...

Dotnetnuke announced they are porting to c#
http://www.dotnetnuke.com/Resources/Blogs/tabid/825/EntryId/2978/DotNetNuke-Embra...

--
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfre...

Bob Butler

3/2/2011 2:32:00 AM

0


"Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message
news:ikk96o$8p5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Karl E. Peterson presented the following explanation :
>> Ten years ago today, Microsoft gathered the Classic VB MVPs together in
>> Redmond to discuss what had gone so horribly wrong with VFred, and why we
>> weren't all just thrilled to be moving to it.
>>
>> We told 'em then that they'd broken it beyond repair and almost beyond
>> recognition, and that this represented the death of the language.
>>
>> Well, it took them exactly 10 years to fully assimilate that, apparently.
>> If you put any stock in this:
>>
>> http://twitter.com/icon_g/statuses/4262177...
>>
>> Btw, I'm not sure it's just a coincidence that the day prior to this
>> meeting, the day all the VB MVPs were arriving in town, was the day of
>> the Nisqually Quake.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Nisqually_... Chew on that,
>> eh?! :-)
>
> The (Next) Exodus begins...
>
> Dotnetnuke announced they are porting to c#
> http://www.dotnetnuke.com/Resources/Blogs/tabid/825/EntryId/2978/DotNetNuke-Embra...

"However, in the years since it has become very apparent that there is much
more to consider than just the run-time perspective. The fact that Microsoft
itself develops the majority of its products in C# results in a far greater
emphasis on the C# language in terms of innovation, tooling, examples,
etc... So although Microsoft tries hard to provide decent support for VB, it
generally feels like an afterthought - almost as if it is a required burden
which they are forced to accept because of the size of the VB community"

Sounds exactly like what many predicted when they first released the
abomination

Karl E. Peterson

3/2/2011 7:07:00 PM

0

Bob Butler explained on 3/1/2011 :
> "Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message
> news:ikk96o$8p5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Karl E. Peterson presented the following explanation :
>>> Ten years ago today, Microsoft gathered the Classic VB MVPs together in
>>> Redmond to discuss what had gone so horribly wrong with VFred, and why we
>>> weren't all just thrilled to be moving to it.
>>>
>>> We told 'em then that they'd broken it beyond repair and almost beyond
>>> recognition, and that this represented the death of the language.
>>>
>>> Well, it took them exactly 10 years to fully assimilate that, apparently.
>>> If you put any stock in this:
>>>
>>> http://twitter.com/icon_g/statuses/4262177...
>>>
>>> Btw, I'm not sure it's just a coincidence that the day prior to this
>>> meeting, the day all the VB MVPs were arriving in town, was the day of the
>>> Nisqually Quake. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Nisqually_...
>>> Chew on that, eh?! :-)
>>
>> The (Next) Exodus begins...
>>
>> Dotnetnuke announced they are porting to c#
>> http://www.dotnetnuke.com/Resources/Blogs/tabid/825/EntryId/2978/DotNetNuke-Embra...
>
> "However, in the years since it has become very apparent that there is much
> more to consider than just the run-time perspective. The fact that Microsoft
> itself develops the majority of its products in C# results in a far greater
> emphasis on the C# language in terms of innovation, tooling, examples, etc...
> So although Microsoft tries hard to provide decent support for VB, it
> generally feels like an afterthought - almost as if it is a required burden
> which they are forced to accept because of the size of the VB community"
>
> Sounds exactly like what many predicted when they first released the
> abomination

I think it was a given, yeah. Especially since practically no one
inside MSFT ever used VB in the first place. The key to insuring
ongoing support for your IP investment is to make sure you're investing
in the same vehicle they are!

--
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfre...

Mayayana

3/3/2011 3:34:00 PM

0

|
| I think it was a given, yeah. Especially since practically no one
| inside MSFT ever used VB in the first place.

Do they use .Net? I have the impression that they
"infected" Vista/7 with just enough .Net to make the
runtime necessary and to reassure DotNetters.
.....Unless you count Paint.Net.

| The key to insuring
| ongoing support for your IP investment is to make sure you're investing
| in the same vehicle they are!
|

Do you suppose they know what vehicle they're
investing in? Today it's gaming. Tomorrow it's phones.
It was Active Desktop. Then it was SPOT watches.
It was phones. Then it wasn't. Now it is again.
Silverlight is the wave of the future...woops. No.
Scratch that. Hold on. What's Steve Jobs up to?
We'll do that.

I'm kind of surprised at the idea that VB.Net would
be completely dropped. MS has been positioning it
as the hobbyist version of .Net. but I'd assumed
that was just to soothe the C-egos. (They risk alienating
C* people if they don't keep Basic a 2nd-class citizen.
Which is a neat trick given that both languages are
running the same code. :)

Meanwhile, the main push right now seems to be
1) Close down the platform(s) in order to cash in
with a middleman position like Apple is doing and 2)
Get 3rd-party developers out of Windows and
into Windows phone applets. #2 is mainly a mom-and
-pop shareware market. I would think that VB.Net
would fit just fine there.


Karl E. Peterson

3/3/2011 9:22:00 PM

0

Mayayana explained on 3/3/2011 :
> I'm kind of surprised at the idea that VB.Net would
> be completely dropped. MS has been positioning it
> as the hobbyist version of .Net.

Well, one of my sources today tells me it's total rumor. But, then,
that'd be his job to say that. <g>

> Meanwhile, the main push right now seems to be
> 1) Close down the platform(s) in order to cash in
> with a middleman position like Apple is doing and 2)
> Get 3rd-party developers out of Windows and
> into Windows phone applets. #2 is mainly a mom-and
> -pop shareware market. I would think that VB.Net
> would fit just fine there.

Yeah, I saw an article just this morning about using it with their
phones.

--
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfre...

(nobody)

3/3/2011 9:41:00 PM

0

"Karl E. Peterson" <karl@exmvps.org> wrote in message
news:ikp0q1$t27$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Mayayana explained on 3/3/2011 :
>> I'm kind of surprised at the idea that VB.Net would
>> be completely dropped. MS has been positioning it
>> as the hobbyist version of .Net.
>
> Well, one of my sources today tells me it's total rumor. But, then,
> that'd be his job to say that. <g>

I hear from time to time how they are trying to keep the features of VB.Net
and C# similar. It takes effort to do that, especially that VB.Net is less
used and adding features would only make it more difficult for beginners,
and perhaps that is what the rumor is all about. If there is a next version,
it would perhaps only contain IDE changes, but that is just a guess on my
part.

Also, it's all about money. I bet sales of VB.Net are very low compared to
what VB6 did, so it's just a drag on MS resources to continue investing in
VB.Net.

Karl E. Peterson

3/3/2011 10:57:00 PM

0

It happens that Nobody formulated :
> Also, it's all about money. I bet sales of VB.Net are very low compared to
> what VB6 did, so it's just a drag on MS resources to continue investing in
> VB.Net.

I'm not sure they ever treat programming languages as "product" in that
sense. The goal is nearly always to push some other platform. (What
do you call someone who pays for the privilege of being a whore?)

--
..NET: It's About Trust!
http://vfre...

Mayayana

3/4/2011 12:38:00 AM

0


| (What
| do you call someone who pays for the privilege of being a whore?)
|

An iPad owner?