Asp Forum - What is the most simple, quicket, yet most powerful python Web-Framework?

xkenneth

2/6/2008 3:04:00 AM

All,

I'm trying to build a simple web application, but i still need
things like sessions and Ajax. I tried to create a Zope product, but I
honestly can't think of anything more cryptic. I really don't enjoy
learning all of the "magic code" and debugging an environment I have
to study to know the slightest thing about.

I'm looking for simple, fast, and easy. I'm both a manager and a
developer, so I don't have a lot of time to try things out and see
what fits best. I need a solution i can implement well and with a
great deal of speed.

My project is going to be rather simple, just some simple forms
for setup/configuration, user management, I assume I'll need
templates, I'd like to use Ajax or a similar technology to display
orthogonal and polar graphs that automatically update. For the DB
backend I'm planning on using ZODB. ZODB is actually quite amazing,
and after using it, I honestly can't think of a reason for using a SQL
database.

All help is appreciated! Let me know if you have any questions.

Regards,
Kenneth Miller

8 Answers

Steve Holden

2/6/2008 3:24:00 AM

xkenneth wrote:
> All,
>
> I'm trying to build a simple web application, but i still need
> things like sessions and Ajax. I tried to create a Zope product, but I
> honestly can't think of anything more cryptic. I really don't enjoy
> learning all of the "magic code" and debugging an environment I have
> to study to know the slightest thing about.
>
> I'm looking for simple, fast, and easy. I'm both a manager and a
> developer, so I don't have a lot of time to try things out and see
> what fits best. I need a solution i can implement well and with a
> great deal of speed.
>
> My project is going to be rather simple, just some simple forms
> for setup/configuration, user management, I assume I'll need
> templates, I'd like to use Ajax or a similar technology to display
> orthogonal and polar graphs that automatically update. For the DB
> backend I'm planning on using ZODB. ZODB is actually quite amazing,
> and after using it, I honestly can't think of a reason for using a SQL
> database.
>
> All help is appreciated! Let me know if you have any questions.
>
My question is: "What makes you think that there is a royal road to web
development?"

You have already chosen some technology (Ajax and ZODB) without any
apparent justification. Why not just consult your prejudices for the
others as well. Come to that, why is it even necessary to select a
Python-based solution?

I could say "Django can do everything you need from your description of
your requirements", but then you'd be disappointed that it does in fact
take time to learn how to do things in Django. Just like it does in any
other complex framework.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.hold...

George Sakkis

2/6/2008 3:27:00 AM

xkenneth wrote:

> For the DB backend I'm planning on using ZODB. ZODB is actually
> quite amazing, and after using it, I honestly can't think of a
> reason for using a SQL database.

Well, one reason is that this probably rules out most of your options
since most web frameworks include (or integrate with) an ORM layer,
which in turn talks to a (relational) database. If you're sold on
ZODB, you may want to evaluate Grok [1], a Web framework built on top
of Zope 3 that doesn't seem to require knowledge of Zope internals.

HTH,
George

[1] http://grok...

Ripter001@gmail.com

2/6/2008 3:28:00 AM

On Feb 5, 10:04 pm, xkenneth <xkenn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> All,
>
> I'm trying to build a simple web application, but i still need
> things like sessions and Ajax. I tried to create a Zope product, but I
> honestly can't think of anything more cryptic. I really don't enjoy
> learning all of the "magic code" and debugging an environment I have
> to study to know the slightest thing about.
>
> I'm looking for simple, fast, and easy. I'm both a manager and a
> developer, so I don't have a lot of time to try things out and see
> what fits best. I need a solution i can implement well and with a
> great deal of speed.
>
> My project is going to be rather simple, just some simple forms
> for setup/configuration, user management, I assume I'll need
> templates, I'd like to use Ajax or a similar technology to display
> orthogonal and polar graphs that automatically update. For the DB
> backend I'm planning on using ZODB. ZODB is actually quite amazing,
> and after using it, I honestly can't think of a reason for using a SQL
> database.
>
> All help is appreciated! Let me know if you have any questions.
>
> Regards,
> Kenneth Miller

Personally I really like Turbogears (http://turbo...) I don't
know anything about ZODB but it works well with MySQL and is very easy
to use if you understand python and web programming (I came over from
PHP and C#).

xkenneth

2/6/2008 3:34:00 AM

> My question is: "What makes you think that there is a royal road to web
> development?"
I don't, I was just hoping there was something I was missing, or more
simple than anything I'd experienced.

>
> You have already chosen some technology (Ajax and ZODB) without any
> apparent justification.
I've chosen Ajax for it's asynchronous nature. Alot of the data I'm
going to be displayed needs to be updated immediately as it comes in.
I've chosen ZODB because of the way it operates. I really enjoy the
flexibility of an object-oriented database as well as the ZEO server,
which will allow me to exactly what I need to do.

Why not just consult your prejudices for the
> others as well.
I haven't made any decisions as to the technology I'm going to use
with prejudice, I simply failed to explain properly why I chose those
technologies.

> Come to that, why is it even necessary to select a
> Python-based solution?
Most of my codebase is currently in python. I use python to do things
like data acquisiton and signal processing. I'm very familiar with
python, and I enjoy developing in it. Python has the technologies
available to it that allow to do what I want to do.
>
> I could say "Django can do everything you need from your description of
> your requirements", but then you'd be disappointed that it does in fact
> take time to learn how to do things in Django. Just like it does in any
> other complex framework.
Thanks.
>
> regards
> Steve
> --
> Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC http://www.hold...

Regards,
Kenneth Miller

xkenneth

2/6/2008 3:41:00 AM

On Feb 5, 9:33 pm, xkenneth <xkenn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > My question is: "What makes you think that there is a royal road to web
> > development?"
>
> I don't, I was just hoping there was something I was missing, or more
> simple than anything I'd experienced.
>
>
>
> > You have already chosen some technology (Ajax and ZODB) without any
> > apparent justification.
>
> I've chosen Ajax for it's asynchronous nature. Alot of the data I'm
> going to be displayed needs to be updated immediately as it comes in.
> I've chosen ZODB because of the way it operates. I really enjoy the
> flexibility of an object-oriented database as well as the ZEO server,
> which will allow me to exactly what I need to do.
>
> Why not just consult your prejudices for the> others as well.
>
> I haven't made any decisions as to the technology I'm going to use
> with prejudice, I simply failed to explain properly why I chose those
> technologies.
>
> > Come to that, why is it even necessary to select a
> > Python-based solution?
>
> Most of my codebase is currently in python. I use python to do things
> like data acquisiton and signal processing. I'm very familiar with
> python, and I enjoy developing in it. Python has the technologies
> available to it that allow to do what I want to do.
>
>
By the way, thanks to all who replied!

>
> > I could say "Django can do everything you need from your description of
> > your requirements", but then you'd be disappointed that it does in fact
> > take time to learn how to do things in Django. Just like it does in any
> > other complex framework.
> Thanks.
>
> > regards
> > Steve
> > --
> > Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
> > Holden Web LLC http://www.hold...
>
> Regards,
> Kenneth Miller

Steve Holden

2/6/2008 3:47:00 AM

xkenneth wrote:
>> My question is: "What makes you think that there is a royal road to web
>> development?"
> I don't, I was just hoping there was something I was missing, or more
> simple than anything I'd experienced.
>
>> You have already chosen some technology (Ajax and ZODB) without any
>> apparent justification.
> I've chosen Ajax for it's asynchronous nature. Alot of the data I'm
> going to be displayed needs to be updated immediately as it comes in.
> I've chosen ZODB because of the way it operates. I really enjoy the
> flexibility of an object-oriented database as well as the ZEO server,
> which will allow me to exactly what I need to do.
>
> Why not just consult your prejudices for the
>> others as well.
> I haven't made any decisions as to the technology I'm going to use
> with prejudice, I simply failed to explain properly why I chose those
> technologies.
>
>> Come to that, why is it even necessary to select a
>> Python-based solution?
> Most of my codebase is currently in python. I use python to do things
> like data acquisiton and signal processing. I'm very familiar with
> python, and I enjoy developing in it. Python has the technologies
> available to it that allow to do what I want to do.
>> I could say "Django can do everything you need from your description of
>> your requirements", but then you'd be disappointed that it does in fact
>> take time to learn how to do things in Django. Just like it does in any
>> other complex framework.
> Thanks.

From what you've said then you probably *would* get along with Grok,
but I am not sure that too much Ajax has been incorporated yet.

As far as I know (and it's difficult to track everything webby in
Python, there's so much) TurboGears and Pylons (eventually to be
integrated, I understand) seem to have gone furthest to integrate Ajax
into the framework.

You are probably better decoupling the Ajax and the content parts, as
most Ajax toolkits are designed to be dropped in to any HTML-based
environment. I quite like MochiKit, but that's mostly about overcoming
the deficiencies of the JavaScript language. Toolkits like ToscaWidgets
will coexist with it quite nicely, and can be used with most web
application frameworks.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.hold...

Steve Holden

2/6/2008 3:47:00 AM

Bruno Desthuilliers

2/6/2008 8:19:00 AM

xkenneth a écrit :
> All,
>
> I'm trying to build a simple web application, but i still need
> things like sessions and Ajax. I tried to create a Zope product, but I
> honestly can't think of anything more cryptic.

Indeed !-)

> I really don't enjoy
> learning all of the "magic code" and debugging an environment I have
> to study to know the slightest thing about.
>
> I'm looking for simple, fast, and easy. I'm both a manager and a
> developer, so I don't have a lot of time to try things out and see
> what fits best. I need a solution i can implement well and with a
> great deal of speed.
>
> My project is going to be rather simple, just some simple forms
> for setup/configuration, user management, I assume I'll need
> templates,

Then I'd recommand Django: clean, easy to get started with yet still
powerful, well documented, strong community. You'll also get some basic
user management and simple yet very usable and useful automatic admin
forms for free.

> I'd like to use Ajax or a similar technology to display
> orthogonal and polar graphs that automatically update.

This is mostly orthogonal to the framework.

> For the DB
> backend I'm planning on using ZODB. ZODB is actually quite amazing,
> and after using it, I honestly can't think of a reason for using a SQL
> database.

Having working experience with both the ZODB and various SQL DBMS, I can
think of quite a lot of pretty good reasons to use a SQL database, and
quite a lot of good reasons to avoid the ZODB unless you pretty well
know what you're doing. Don't get me wrong: the ZODB is a pretty good
piece of software, and there are some use case for it. But since you're
talking about "orthogonal and polar graphs" - which to me implies lot of
small, atomic, highly structured data -, I don't think an OODB would fit
here.

comp.lang.python

What is the most simple, quicket, yet most powerful python Web-Framework?

xkenneth

Steve Holden

George Sakkis

Ripter001@gmail.com

xkenneth

xkenneth

Steve Holden

Steve Holden

Bruno Desthuilliers

x Login to ForumsZone