sheldonlg
3/19/2013 7:13:00 PM
On 3/19/2013 2:42 PM, Yisroel Markov wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 14:05:17 +0000 (UTC), Shelly
> <sheldonlg@thevillages.net> said:
>
>> On 3/19/2013 9:51 AM, Yisroel Markov wrote:
>>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 20:23:27 +0000 (UTC), DoD <danskisanjar@gmail.com>
>>> said:
>>>
>>>> On Mar 18, 2:50 pm, Shelly <sheldo...@thevillages.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>>> No, you misunderstood. Jew use teffillin as an aide in prayer. It is
>>>>> part of the ritual of praying at certain times. Likewise, their symbols
>>>>> are aides in prayer. They are not prayer TO those pieces of wood or
>>>>> marble, nor do they believe that those pieces of wood or marble ARE
>>>>> god[like]. They are concentration aides, not the objects of prayer --
>>>>> same as teffillin.
>>>>
>>>> Again it is exactly right. Prayer aides. One thing that really annoys
>>>> Catholics is when Protestants/Evangelicals try to tell us that we pray
>>>> to statues and that we worship Mary. You never catch Catholics
>>>> talking bad about Prot/Evan customs.
>>>
>>> For the record, David, I agree with what you and Shelly say here.
>>> That's not what upset me.
>>
>> Well, this is what I meant (to which you now agree)
>
> Always had.
>
>> and if something
>> else upset you, I am sorry, but I don't know what. I never meant to be
>> "insulting", and I *DO* see teffillin as part of prayer ritual,
>
> Yes. Although one may wear them at other times, and doing so is
> considered praiseworthy.
>
>> hence "prayer/concentration aides".
>
> No. Doesn't follow. (BTW, an "aide" is a person.)
Ok, Ok, already. "prayer/concentration aids".
>
>> If you consider that insulting, then I
>> don't know why, but that is how I view them.
>
> And you are wrong. I tell you that as a habitual tefillin-wearer. I'm
> sure there are Jews who think of tefillin as "prayer/concentration
> aids", what with the New Age influences out there, or nothing but
> "part of the ritual of praying at certain times," but IMHO that's not
> "kosher." (Of course, the main thing is to wear tefillin, rather than
> to have correct ideas about them.)
>
> What was insulting is how cavalierly you drew not only a functional,
> but a substantial analogy between tefillin and those non-Jewish
> symbols. Even if not idolatrous (which is halakhically doubtful), the
> described use of those symbols is big-time anathema to Jews. I
> understand that you didn't mean to be insulting, of course.
Well, we'll leave it at that.
--
Shelly