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Re: If you are unhappy with the direction of Ruby 1.8.7+, respond

Yukihiro Matsumoto

2/12/2009 1:35:00 AM

Hi,

In message "Re: If you are unhappy with the direction of Ruby 1.8.7+, respond"
on Thu, 12 Feb 2009 06:54:09 +0900, Alex Fenton <alex@deleteme.pressure.to> writes:

|> compatibility of 1.8.7 seems to be pretty good.
|
|Well, Rails. And many SWIG-based C-extensions - eg wxRuby.

We know the Rails issue (and solved), but could you elaborate on
issues with wxRuby and SWIG?

matz.
6 Answers

Alex Fenton

2/12/2009 1:41:00 AM

0

Yukihiro Matsumoto wrote:

> In message "Re: If you are unhappy with the direction of Ruby 1.8.7+, respond"
> on Thu, 12 Feb 2009 06:54:09 +0900, Alex Fenton <alex@deleteme.pressure.to> writes:
>
> |> compatibility of 1.8.7 seems to be pretty good.
> |
> |Well, Rails. And many SWIG-based C-extensions - eg wxRuby.
>
> We know the Rails issue (and solved), but could you elaborate on
> issues with wxRuby and SWIG?

http://sourceforge.net/tracker2/?func=detail&aid=2034216&group_id=1645&a...

a

Urabe Shyouhei

2/13/2009 6:24:00 AM

0

Alex Fenton wrote:
>> We know the Rails issue (and solved), but could you elaborate on
>> issues with wxRuby and SWIG?
>
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker2/?func=detail&aid=2034216&group_id=1645&a...

This is not our fault. Please hold on and think yourself. GC is running means
ruby interpreter is running out of memory. It is as clear as day that object
allocation during GC is not doable, because we do not have any memory space.

So SWIG had a bug. 1.8.7 helped to find it out.

Alex Fenton

2/13/2009 7:31:00 AM

0

Urabe Shyouhei wrote:
> Alex Fenton wrote:
>>> We know the Rails issue (and solved), but could you elaborate on
>>> issues with wxRuby and SWIG?
>> http://sourceforge.net/tracker2/?func=detail&aid=2034216&group_id=1645&a...
>
> This is not our fault. Please hold on and think yourself. GC is running means
> ruby interpreter is running out of memory. It is as clear as day that object
> allocation during GC is not doable, because we do not have any memory space.
>
> So SWIG had a bug. 1.8.7 helped to find it out.

Thanks. I perfectly understand the reason for the change, although the
old behaviour worked fine in practice and libraries (not just SWIG ones)
relied on it. It can be seen "fixing broken behaviour" though IMHO
changing expectations of how GC works would better have been left for
1.8->1.9 transition.

My concern about 1.8.7 has always been more that code written for 1.8.7
is not necessarily compatible with 1.8.6, not the other way around - and
to a much greater degree than previous .x releases. The problem is with
expected and actual meaning of version numbers, not the code itself.

Anyway, I'm not going to stop using ruby just because it has an
idiosyncratic versioning scheme. Thanks to all for a useful and mostly
temperate discussion.

alex

Nobuyoshi Nakada

2/13/2009 11:25:00 AM

0

Hi,

At Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:33:38 +0900,
Alex Fenton wrote in [ruby-talk:328029]:
> Thanks. I perfectly understand the reason for the change, although the
> old behaviour worked fine in practice and libraries (not just SWIG ones)
> relied on it. It can be seen "fixing broken behaviour" though IMHO
> changing expectations of how GC works would better have been left for
> 1.8->1.9 transition.

And the workaround has been introduced into 1.8.7 already, so
those extensions would work without changing.

--
Nobu Nakada

Christopher Dicely

2/13/2009 3:29:00 PM

0

On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Urabe Shyouhei <shyouhei@ruby-lang.org> wrote:
> Alex Fenton wrote:
>>> We know the Rails issue (and solved), but could you elaborate on
>>> issues with wxRuby and SWIG?
>>
>> http://sourceforge.net/tracker2/?func=detail&aid=2034216&group_id=1645&a...
>
> This is not our fault. Please hold on and think yourself. GC is running means
> ruby interpreter is running out of memory. It is as clear as day that object
> allocation during GC is not doable, because we do not have any memory space.

GC is running may mean the interpreter is running out of memory, it
may mean some code just called GC.start for some other reason.

Urabe Shyouhei

2/15/2009 5:55:00 AM

0

Christopher Dicely wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Urabe Shyouhei <shyouhei@ruby-lang.org> wrote:
>> Alex Fenton wrote:
>>>> We know the Rails issue (and solved), but could you elaborate on
>>>> issues with wxRuby and SWIG?
>>> http://sourceforge.net/tracker2/?func=detail&aid=2034216&group_id=1645&a...
>> This is not our fault. Please hold on and think yourself. GC is running means
>> ruby interpreter is running out of memory. It is as clear as day that object
>> allocation during GC is not doable, because we do not have any memory space.
>
> GC is running may mean the interpreter is running out of memory, it
> may mean some code just called GC.start for some other reason.


True, but that doesn't change the conclusion.