Asp Forum - Re: If you use PDF::Writer, read this post!

Gregory Brown

1/18/2009 5:40:00 PM

On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 6:53 AM, Jocke Selin <the.joxor@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Greg,
>
> I'm replying to this off-list, simply because I don't really feel this is an
> issue that needs to be debated in public. If you feel it should be public,
> please feel free to reply on-list.

Okay, I have done that, to help encourage discussion on the topic and
because you have good points.

> I hope my words don't come across as negative. My intention is to let you
> know how things are in our business. A business that's led by real world
> constraints such as budgets and time. I personally wish for unlimited
> resources, but that's just dreaming. ;)

I didn't find anything you said in this message to be negative or
insulting, and I'm glad you shared your thoughts. Of course... there
are things worth discussing here.

> On 18 Jan 2009, at 01:35, Gregory Brown wrote:
>>
>> = Are you happy with Prawn as it is and have already migrated your new
>> projects to it?
>
> I haven't even tried Prawn. Why? Because PDF::Write works and I frankly
> don't have time to "play around" with stuff that's not a priority. I suspect
> that one day I need to try out Prawn, and I have 100% faith in that it'll be
> just fine for our needs.

Do you mean it works in projects you already have built, or that you
are using PDF::Writer for new projects? In the former case, I've got
a lot of projects that are that way. We built them in PDF::Writer,
they 'work', and they'll probably never get translated. But 90% of
the time, it'd be crazy for me to use it for new projects because
Prawn is such a time saver and will be a major benefit down the line
since it is actively developed. There are those 10% cases from time
to time, but those get smaller each day (For me, others might have a
different experience)

> With this in mind, I'd like to have clear migration instructions from
> PDF::Writer to, then, PDF::Document.

This is a great idea, and you can be sure that this will exist by the
time PDF::Document 1.0 is out. I might even put something together
for Prawn in the interim. Or even better, any volunteers? :)

>> = Are there features you need that have not yet been implemented in
>> Prawn?
>
> As I haven't investigated Prawn, I might have missed something, but what is
> vital to us, and what took a long time for me to "hack" was something that
> could be called "PDF::Paper". What I mean by that is something similar to
> stationery in real life. I have a system that generates certain documents.
> These documents will be sent to my client's clients. Therefore they need to
> have headed paper, etc. I hacked this in PDF::Writer (as you can see if you
> search the archives) in a not very elegant way.
> The requirement is simply that I need a template that will be applied to all
> pages of the "print-out". Such as headers, footers, and a good bonus would
> be to define default fonts/sizes/colours etc.
>
> This requirement could also be defined as a one-page-document that can be
> read into PDF::Document and used as a template. This would obviously provide
> for a greater level of customisation for non-programmers (read: graphic
> designers etc).

Just for the record, I think this is an interesting feature. It's not
present in PDF::Writer, so it's not at the top of the queue in terms
of my personal goals, but I like the idea a lot and would welcome a
prawn-paper extension, possibly even as part of the 'official'
project. Those interested in working on such a thing should contact
me on the Prawn mailing list[0].

>> = Do you plan to keep on using PDF::Writer even though it's slated for
>> deprecation?
>
>
> Totally honest; yes. I won't switch to PDF::Document unless PDF::Writer is
> broken. It's a sad, but realistic, fact. I simply don't have the resources
> to halt other development to switch, for the sake of switching. I would
> _like_ to do the switch "out of panic" but I'm afraid that the reality of
> "the real world" won't allow for it. Sure there's a chance it will happen,
> but I have to stay realistic and let you know the facts. And in the same
> breath I'll state that our system will, in time, switch to PDF::Document. :)

I think there may have been a misunderstanding. I didn't mean people
should go eradicate existing PDF::Writer projects and replace them
with Prawn, because I'm not even doing that (well, not everywhere,
anyway). What I'm suggesting is that people should use Prawn for
their new projects once it becomes PDF::Document because my current
plans are to drop all support for PDF::Writer.

Now you've been lucky and not run into issues (with either
performance, bugs, etc) in PDF::Writer, but many others are not so
lucky, and without a maintainer, PDF::Writer will continue to rot in
the face of these issues. Sure, we can get it up on github and hope
for the best, but I don't think that's any real solution. I plan to
do one or two more release of PDF::Writer before I retire it, just to
clear the patch pool, but after that, the 'official' development will
completely stop unless someone stands up and takes up the role of
maintaining it.

This is why the best solution I can see is for PDF::Writer users to
spend an hour or two learning Prawn to see how close it fits their
needs. If a huge group feels like it's way off and will continue to
be way off after 1.0, the they should elect a maintainer and get in
touch with me for a smooth transition.

> I also want to thank you for your continued work and support. Both on Prawn
> and PDF::Writer.

Thanks for the kind words,

-greg

[0] http://groups.google.com/group/...

--
Technical Blaag at: http://blog.majesticseacr...
Non-tech stuff at: http://metametta.bl...
"Ruby Best Practices" Book now in O'Reilly Roughcuts:
http://rubybestpra...

1 Answer

Gregory Brown

1/19/2009 3:59:00 PM

On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:54 AM, Jocke Selin <the.joxor@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 18 Jan 2009, at 17:40, Gregory Brown wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 6:53 AM, Jocke Selin <the.joxor@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 18 Jan 2009, at 01:35, Gregory Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>> = Are you happy with Prawn as it is and have already migrated your new
>>>> projects to it?
>>>
>>> I haven't even tried Prawn. Why? Because PDF::Write works and I frankly
>>> don't have time to "play around" with stuff that's not a priority. I
>>> suspect
>>> that one day I need to try out Prawn, and I have 100% faith in that it'll
>>> be
>>> just fine for our needs.
>>
>> Do you mean it works in projects you already have built, or that you
>> are using PDF::Writer for new projects? In the former case, I've got
>> a lot of projects that are that way. We built them in PDF::Writer,
>> they 'work', and they'll probably never get translated. But 90% of
>> the time, it'd be crazy for me to use it for new projects because
>> Prawn is such a time saver and will be a major benefit down the line
>> since it is actively developed. There are those 10% cases from time
>> to time, but those get smaller each day (For me, others might have a
>> different experience)
>
> I read your question as "are you going to migrate existing projects to
> Prawn?". And that was the question I was trying to answer. For new projects
> the answer is simple; We'll definitely use the latest products available. In
> PDF's case, Prawn, to be PDF::Document would be the weapon of choice. Even
> if it's in late Beta. Reason for accepting late Betas is that once our
> product is ready, the other product will be out of Beta too. :)

Ah, that's completely understandable. Glad we cleared this up.

>> Just for the record, I think this is an interesting feature. It's not
>> present in PDF::Writer, so it's not at the top of the queue in terms
>> of my personal goals, but I like the idea a lot and would welcome a
>> prawn-paper extension, possibly even as part of the 'official'
>> project. Those interested in working on such a thing should contact
>> me on the Prawn mailing list[0].
>
> Excellent. I will do my best to provide "specifications" if required, but
> that's sadly as far as I can reasonably go with my promises.

Sure, why don't you put something together and post it to the Prawn
list. Who knows, someone might have a similar need and decide to
implement it...

-greg

--
Technical Blaag at: http://blog.majesticseacr...
Non-tech stuff at: http://metametta.bl...
"Ruby Best Practices" Book now in O'Reilly Roughcuts:
http://rubybestpra...

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Re: If you use PDF::Writer, read this post!

Gregory Brown

Gregory Brown

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