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comp.lang.ruby

Getting Employer to Pay for RubyConf

Clinton D. Judy

9/15/2008 7:19:00 PM

So I'm just finishing my first year at a real job, and thinking about
asking to go to RubyConf. I really don't have the money to pay for this
out of pocket. I also know that this company sends TONS of people to
heavy construction conferences every year (it's our business), so I'm
sure that if I asked right, they would do it for me.

=20

But I've never asked for that before. I don't think I want to do it
casually; to easy for them to say 'no', even when this would be really
beneficial. See, that's another problem, I'm going to this conference
90% to learn Ruby and keep up with the Ruby world, and 10% or so to meet
and hang out with other Rubyists. No offense to the other attendees; if
this conference were in Minnesota in the dead of winter, the office
would know for CERTAIN that there were no other reason for me wanting to
go there. November in Florida? Boss may want to go instead (not a Ruby
user).

=20

Tips?

=20

Clinton Judy

Web Developer

Glenn O. Hawbaker, Inc.

=20
13 Answers

Robert Dober

9/15/2008 7:55:00 PM

0

<snip>
> if
> this conference were in Minnesota in the dead of winter, the office
> would know for CERTAIN that there were no other reason for me wanting to
> go there. November in Florida?
Seems indeed a bad choice LOL.

Anyway you have made it quite clear you have to show that it brings
them more than what it costs them.
With the background information you gave us it is difficult to
elaborate a rationale, maybe you can be more explicit?

Robert
--=20
C'est v=E9ritablement utile puisque c'est joli.

Antoine de Saint Exup=E9ry

Clinton D. Judy

9/15/2008 8:33:00 PM

0

This may be a little lengthy.

My office has almost exclusively run Microsoft applications, from SQL =
Server to IIS to Windows Server (and all the usual desktop apps, =
XP/Vista/Office that aren't relevant here). My first application here =
was to organize and search employment applications. I built the UI in =
Flex, and barely hacked together a backend for simple CRUD in ASP. I =
told the office I would be researching languages/frameworks for the next =
project, and I did a few tiny programs in Perl, Python, and PHP. My =
first attempt with Ruby was wonderful though, and doing a small Rails =
application got me hooked. I developed our second in-house program, an =
app to manage paving crews around Pennsylvania, completely in Rails. =
(We're still attempting to deploy to IIS on Windows Server, and I had to =
write it using stored procedures for all database stuff to SQL Server. =
But it's been wonderful otherwise!)

Right before "Paving Scheduler" my boss and several coworkers raised the =
concern that we're supporting too many technologies. I countered that =
Ruby and RoR were completely worth it, and I would be happy using it as =
my only language for the next few years.

As of today, I've all but finished Paving Scheduler, and am working on =
the first application for "Phase 2" as I program several features =
requested over the previous year. I will hopefully be redoing the =
backend to work in Rails, seeing how well Rails works with Flex. Even =
though I'm actively encouraged to "stop refactoring when it starts =
working"...

Our company isn't a stranger to sending people away to conferences. Our =
report writer is at a Cognos event in Alabama as I write this. But she =
was sent there, and it sounds like most of the people who go to =
conferences around here wouldn't really care to go, but their bosses =
send them.

...Maybe there's something subliminal I can do?

- Clinton

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Dober [mailto:robert.dober@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 3:55 PM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: Getting Employer to Pay for RubyConf

<snip>
> if
> this conference were in Minnesota in the dead of winter, the office
> would know for CERTAIN that there were no other reason for me wanting =
to
> go there. November in Florida?
Seems indeed a bad choice LOL.

Anyway you have made it quite clear you have to show that it brings
them more than what it costs them.
With the background information you gave us it is difficult to
elaborate a rationale, maybe you can be more explicit?

Robert
--=20
C'est v=E9ritablement utile puisque c'est joli.

Antoine de Saint Exup=E9ry

Clinton D. Judy

9/15/2008 8:35:00 PM

0

Eek! I just discovered how fast the seats sell out! How much time do I =
have to register!?

-----Original Message-----
From: Clinton D. Judy [mailto:cdj@goh-inc.com]=20
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 4:33 PM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: Getting Employer to Pay for RubyConf

This may be a little lengthy.

My office has almost exclusively run Microsoft applications, from SQL =
Server to IIS to Windows Server (and all the usual desktop apps, =
XP/Vista/Office that aren't relevant here). My first application here =
was to organize and search employment applications. I built the UI in =
Flex, and barely hacked together a backend for simple CRUD in ASP. I =
told the office I would be researching languages/frameworks for the next =
project, and I did a few tiny programs in Perl, Python, and PHP. My =
first attempt with Ruby was wonderful though, and doing a small Rails =
application got me hooked. I developed our second in-house program, an =
app to manage paving crews around Pennsylvania, completely in Rails. =
(We're still attempting to deploy to IIS on Windows Server, and I had to =
write it using stored procedures for all database stuff to SQL Server. =
But it's been wonderful otherwise!)

Right before "Paving Scheduler" my boss and several coworkers raised the =
concern that we're supporting too many technologies. I countered that =
Ruby and RoR were completely worth it, and I would be happy using it as =
my only language for the next few years.


As of today, I've all but finished Paving Scheduler, and am working on =
the first application for "Phase 2" as I program several features =
requested over the previous year. I will hopefully be redoing the =
backend to work in Rails, seeing how well Rails works with Flex. Even =
though I'm actively encouraged to "stop refactoring when it starts =
working"...

Our company isn't a stranger to sending people away to conferences. Our =
report writer is at a Cognos event in Alabama as I write this. But she =
was sent there, and it sounds like most of the people who go to =
conferences around here wouldn't really care to go, but their bosses =
send them.

...Maybe there's something subliminal I can do?

- Clinton

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Dober [mailto:robert.dober@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 3:55 PM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: Getting Employer to Pay for RubyConf

<snip>
> if
> this conference were in Minnesota in the dead of winter, the office
> would know for CERTAIN that there were no other reason for me wanting =
to
> go there. November in Florida?
Seems indeed a bad choice LOL.

Anyway you have made it quite clear you have to show that it brings
them more than what it costs them.
With the background information you gave us it is difficult to
elaborate a rationale, maybe you can be more explicit?

Robert
--=20
C'est v=E9ritablement utile puisque c'est joli.

Antoine de Saint Exup=E9ry

Bill Walton

9/15/2008 8:40:00 PM

0

Hi Judy,

Clinton D. Judy wrote:



> I'm going to this conference 90% to learn Ruby and
> keep up with the Ruby world, and 10% or so to meet
> and hang out with other Rubyists.

That's what all conferences are about. Just ask. Don't pre-judge your
boss. (S)he may not be the a$$hole you're afraid of.

> if this conference were in Minnesota in the dead of winter,
> the office would know for CERTAIN that there were no
> other reason for me wanting to go there. November in
> Florida? Boss may want to go instead (not a Ruby user).

You're right. Suggest that the boss may want to attend too. Build
support.

HTH,
Bill

Tips?



Clinton Judy

Web Developer

Glenn O. Hawbaker, Inc.

Robert Dober

9/15/2008 8:52:00 PM

0

Well seems to me you have had much more success in lobbing for Ruby
than I did, I guess I could have migrated half the project to ruby in
the time they were fighting a religous war if to use C# or Java...
Ok back to issue - obviously I am jealous ;) - why not use the same
approach you always use and BTW as someone pointed out, if your boss
is really concerned about you using Ruby how could he better decide
than by attending Ruby Conf with you, the bad weather threat
withstanding ;).

Cheers


--=20
C'est v=E9ritablement utile puisque c'est joli.

Antoine de Saint Exup=E9ry

Clinton D. Judy

9/16/2008 12:57:00 PM

0

Now I see the "Voices that Matter" conference, and wondering if it's a =
better idea. Another guy at our Ruby meetup group said the price looked =
really steep. And he didn't know how much relevant content you could get =
from 30 minutes per speaker (like the case study of Rails at the NY =
Times). And it seemed to be only speakers from Addison-Wesley (though I =
love "The Rails Way", but don't know about anything else).

BUT it's in Boston! In November! No one's going to think I'm just going =
for vacation here. Ha ha! Thoughts on VtM?

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Dober [mailto:robert.dober@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 4:52 PM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: Getting Employer to Pay for RubyConf

Well seems to me you have had much more success in lobbing for Ruby
than I did, I guess I could have migrated half the project to ruby in
the time they were fighting a religous war if to use C# or Java...
Ok back to issue - obviously I am jealous ;) - why not use the same
approach you always use and BTW as someone pointed out, if your boss
is really concerned about you using Ruby how could he better decide
than by attending Ruby Conf with you, the bad weather threat
withstanding ;).

Cheers


--=20
C'est v=E9ritablement utile puisque c'est joli.

Antoine de Saint Exup=E9ry

Lloyd Linklater

9/16/2008 12:59:00 PM

0

I do not know how to ask for this but I have an idea of how you can
discover the method. Find out how the "TONS of people" get to go and
find a way to ask it so that it sounds just like the justification that
you know will work.

GL!
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Gregory Brown

9/16/2008 1:04:00 PM

0

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Bill Walton <bill.walton@charter.net> wrote:
> Hi Judy,
>
> Clinton D. Judy wrote:
>
>
>
>> I'm going to this conference 90% to learn Ruby and
>> keep up with the Ruby world, and 10% or so to meet
>> and hang out with other Rubyists.
>
> That's what all conferences are about. Just ask. Don't pre-judge your
> boss. (S)he may not be the a$$hole you're afraid of.

To be honest, going to Ruby conferences is about 90% a chance for me
to meet up and (possibly) do interesting work with other Rubyists, and
10% learning.

That's not to say that I don't learn more than 10% of the time, I'm
just saying I prefer conference that *aren't* all about training and
information, or have special sections for that to accommodate a wide
variety of interests.

To be perfectly honest, if you want to spend 90% of your time
learning, you might be better off asking your workplace to send you to
a training session.

-greg

--
Technical Blaag at: http://blog.majesticseacr... | Non-tech
stuff at: http://metametta.bl...

Jeremy McAnally

9/16/2008 1:25:00 PM

0

Why not suggest that conference OR Rubyconf? The cost alone will
likely sway your boss to let you go to Rubyconf.

--Jeremy

On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 7:56 AM, Clinton D. Judy <cdj@goh-inc.com> wrote:
> Now I see the "Voices that Matter" conference, and wondering if it's a be=
tter idea. Another guy at our Ruby meetup group said the price looked reall=
y steep. And he didn't know how much relevant content you could get from 30=
minutes per speaker (like the case study of Rails at the NY Times). And it=
seemed to be only speakers from Addison-Wesley (though I love "The Rails W=
ay", but don't know about anything else).
>
> BUT it's in Boston! In November! No one's going to think I'm just going f=
or vacation here. Ha ha! Thoughts on VtM?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Dober [mailto:robert.dober@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 4:52 PM
> To: ruby-talk ML
> Subject: Re: Getting Employer to Pay for RubyConf
>
> Well seems to me you have had much more success in lobbing for Ruby
> than I did, I guess I could have migrated half the project to ruby in
> the time they were fighting a religous war if to use C# or Java...
> Ok back to issue - obviously I am jealous ;) - why not use the same
> approach you always use and BTW as someone pointed out, if your boss
> is really concerned about you using Ruby how could he better decide
> than by attending Ruby Conf with you, the bad weather threat
> withstanding ;).
>
> Cheers
>
>
> --
> C'est v=E9ritablement utile puisque c'est joli.
>
> Antoine de Saint Exup=E9ry
>
>
>
>



--=20
http://jeremymca...
http:/...
http://omgb...

My books:
http://manning.com...
http://humblelittlerub... (FREE!)

Tim Hunter

9/16/2008 1:52:00 PM

0

Clinton D. Judy wrote:
> So I'm just finishing my first year at a real job, and thinking about
> asking to go to RubyConf. I really don't have the money to pay for this
> out of pocket. I also know that this company sends TONS of people to
> heavy construction conferences every year (it's our business), so I'm
> sure that if I asked right, they would do it for me.
>
> But I've never asked for that before. I don't think I want to do it
> casually; to easy for them to say 'no', even when this would be really
> beneficial. See, that's another problem, I'm going to this conference
> 90% to learn Ruby and keep up with the Ruby world, and 10% or so to meet
> and hang out with other Rubyists. No offense to the other attendees; if
> this conference were in Minnesota in the dead of winter, the office
> would know for CERTAIN that there were no other reason for me wanting to
> go there. November in Florida? Boss may want to go instead (not a Ruby
> user).

This is a business question pure-and-simple. You're asking your company
to make an investment in you by spending money to send you to the
conference. You have to justify it by showing how your company will make
a profit on their investment.

So consider, what's the benefit to your company? I assume that part of
your job is to write Ruby code. (If not, it's going to be very hard to
explain how going to a Ruby conference will make you a more valuable
employee.) As you said, some of the benefit will be education: You'll be
attending presentations where you'll learn about how to use Ruby more
effectively to do whatever it is you do at your company. You'll learn
about ways to use Ruby in your job that will lower costs or increase
profits. (Lowering costs is good, increasing profits is better, but
since your company is in heavy construction and not software it's more
likely you're using Ruby to lower their IT costs.)

It would be nice if you could point to a specific Ruby project that
you're working on right now, or will be working on very soon, and say
"Boss, with what I learn we'll be able to complete this project
sooner/make it more robust/do more than we thought we could." (And
implicitly, "Boss, this will make you look good to your boss.")

So a large benefit from going to RubyConf is education. There's another
benefit from RubyConf, and conferences in general, and that's the
intellectual stimulation you get from just being around like-minded
professionals and hearing about their work, ideas, problems, and
solutions. I almost always come back from a conference full of energy
and ideas about ways to do my job better.

Another huge benefit is the opportunity to make connections. Ruby is
open source and an important benefit of open source is the community.
You'll be able to meet other Rubyists face-to-face, share a glass, get
to know each other. The community is a great resource for solving
problems and sharing code and ideas.

So, from RubyConf you get education, intellectual stimulation, and
connections. It's up to you to show your boss that you'll come back a
more valuable employee, sufficiently more valuable that their investment
in you will be repaid.

Good luck!
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....