[lnkForumImage]
TotalShareware - Download Free Software
Confronta i prezzi di migliaia di prodotti.
Asp Forum
 Home | Login | Register | Search 


 

Forums >

comp.lang.ruby

Re: An introduction, in about 50 lines of Ruby.

Yukihiro Matsumoto

8/8/2008 2:28:00 PM

Hi,

In message "Re: An introduction, in about 50 lines of Ruby."
on Fri, 8 Aug 2008 23:14:01 +0900, Alexei Broner <lahgyk@gmail.com> writes:

|You guys are no fun. I didn't even get "that's not really recursive,
|it's building an external variable.", much less a "Hello, welcome to the
|group."

"Hello, welcome to the group." ;-)

|Maybe I should go learn Python...

Maybe you should. Then you can choose a language you prefer.

matz.
42 Answers

Trans

8/8/2008 3:13:00 PM

0



On Aug 8, 10:27=A0am, Yukihiro Matsumoto <m...@ruby-lang.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In message "Re: An introduction, in about 50 lines of Ruby."
> =A0 =A0 on Fri, 8 Aug 2008 23:14:01 +0900, Alexei Broner <lah...@gmail.co=
m> writes:
>
> |You guys are no fun. I didn't even get "that's not really recursive,
> |it's building an external variable.", much less a "Hello, welcome to the
> |group."
>
> "Hello, welcome to the group." ;-)
>
> |Maybe I should go learn Python...
>
> Maybe you should. =A0Then you can choose a language you prefer.
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 matz.

Maybe it's time for a list split?

I have noticed that there has been a fairly sharp decline in list
participation over the last couple of years. In August of 2006 there
were over 6500 posts, since then we have seen a steady decline to the
low 3000s. From what I can tell, the main issue is that Ruby experts
tire of the quantity of nuby posts that they have to weed through.

I know there is the fear that having two lists of "beginner" vs.
"expert" creates the fear that experts won't help out beginner, but
that it already the case --as demonstrated by this post. There are the
nice guys like David Black who take the time to answer new user's
posts often, but he will do this if there are one or two lists ;) In
fact, I think it would be easier for experts to help new users if they
could more readily segregate the post types.

So I'll go out on a limb here, I respectfully request that an official
"ruby-pro" (or some such name) be created.

T.

James Gray

8/8/2008 3:31:00 PM

0

On Aug 8, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Trans wrote:

> So I'll go out on a limb here, I respectfully request that an official
> "ruby-pro" (or some such name) be created.

Will you be deciding who is a pro? Will you be preventing new users
from joining?

James Edward Gray II

Peter Hickman

8/8/2008 3:38:00 PM

0

Trans wrote:
> Maybe it's time for a list split?
>
> I have noticed that there has been a fairly sharp decline in list
> participation over the last couple of years. In August of 2006 there
> were over 6500 posts, since then we have seen a steady decline to the
> low 3000s. From what I can tell, the main issue is that Ruby experts
> tire of the quantity of nuby posts that they have to weed through.
>
> I know there is the fear that having two lists of "beginner" vs.
> "expert" creates the fear that experts won't help out beginner, but
> that it already the case --as demonstrated by this post.

Quite frankly I don't know what we were supposed to do to help this guy.
He may be a beginner but he was just posting his ego. I didn't post for
the simple reason: "don't feed the troll".

There is certainly a decline in the quality of the beginners post, they
are sometimes coming down to the subject line being the whole post and
other bitching about how no one is helping them. I am reminded of Zed's
comments and something DDH said. "We own you nothing" (to paraphrase).
Some of the beginners don't make the effort to ask for help, it is
almost as if they are throwing their cloths in the laundry basket and
expecting their mom to magically clean and fix them.

Just what was the OPs (programming) problem?

Lloyd Linklater

8/8/2008 6:42:00 PM

0

Peter Hickman wrote:
> There is certainly a decline in the quality of the beginners post, they
> are sometimes coming down to the subject line being the whole post and
> other bitching about how no one is helping them. I am reminded of Zed's
> comments and something DDH said. "We own you nothing" (to paraphrase).
> Some of the beginners don't make the effort to ask for help, it is
> almost as if they are throwing their cloths in the laundry basket and
> expecting their mom to magically clean and fix them.

Outstanding point. This goes along nicely with
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-ques... from another thread.
We want to help because we are helpful and nice people, sometimes to our
misfortune. We do take time to read and answer when we can but it is
not the obligation that some reactions indicate is perceived.

I have gotten wonderful help here on some things and not others. That
is fine. Sometimes you just need to muddle through. I know that there
are posts that I automatically decline to help. When someone posts with
a 'this is more than I want to figure out so I won't even try. Here, do
it FOR me.' are discarded forthwith. People that ask intelligent
questions that say that they tried and are running into walls and just
want to get past those, them I like going the extra mile for when I can.

All that to say, we might do some weeding. James Gray asked an
excellent question:

Trans wrote:

> So I'll go out on a limb here, I respectfully request that an official
> "ruby-pro" (or some such name) be created.

James Gray wrote:
> Will you be deciding who is a pro? Will you be preventing new users
> from joining?

Well, I suggest that we try letting people decide for themselves which
they are. I have seen many posts where the subject line outright says
that it is a noob question, so they know. I think that it would have
the side benefit of letting those that are a little less of a noob to
help the total noobs. That would let people look and help where they
want to with a pre-filtered list.

fwiw&imho
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Trans

8/8/2008 6:51:00 PM

0



On Aug 8, 11:31=A0am, James Gray <ja...@grayproductions.net> wrote:
> On Aug 8, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Trans wrote:
>
> > So I'll go out on a limb here, I respectfully request that an official
> > "ruby-pro" (or some such name) be created.
>
> Will you be deciding who is a pro? =A0Will you be preventing new users =
=A0
> from joining?

Of course not. No one decides who can join ruby-core either. People
naturally segregate themselves according to the environment most
suitable to them. It's not something that generally needs any kind of
strong-handed enforcement. Moreover, it's not so much about being a
beginner or expert, but whether the thread at hand is beginner or
expert. Even experts occasionally need reminders on basic stuff, etc.

Anyway, I'm not saying it's a perfect idea. The worlds not perfect
place! I'm just looking at some symptoms and suggesting a possible
remedy.

T.

Trans

8/8/2008 6:54:00 PM

0



On Aug 8, 11:50=A0am, Dana Merrick <dmerr...@ics.com> wrote:
Aren't we all a little egotistical? We ARE programmers, after all.

Nice :)

T.

James Britt

8/8/2008 7:30:00 PM

0

Trans wrote:

>
> So I'll go out on a limb here, I respectfully request that an official
> "ruby-pro" (or some such name) be created.

The Thoughtful Ruby mailing list has roughly zero traffic, so I'm
skeptical a new list would be helpful.

Maybe people heard about Rails, tried it for a while, and decided either
to just hang on the rails lists, or switch (back) to Java or PHP or
something.

Or, more likely, people have formed multiple Ruby communities, and each
has found their own way (blogs, twitter, other lists, irc) to keep in
touch.



--
James Britt

www.happycamperstudios.com - Wicked Cool Coding
www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff

Ilan Berci

8/8/2008 8:27:00 PM

0

IMHO, I believe that posting has declined over the last couple of years
due to ruby maturing as a language. It has now become a friendly,
familliar, and reliable tool instead of the rough, cutting edge one it
used to be.

i.e. After writing a 1000 blocks, I still think they are the coolest
thing since sliced bread but they don't keep me up at night like they
used to.. :)

ilan


--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Martin DeMello

8/9/2008 7:29:00 AM

0

On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 8:13 AM, Trans <transfire@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So I'll go out on a limb here, I respectfully request that an official
> "ruby-pro" (or some such name) be created.

If the list does split, surely ruby-beginners is the new list that
should be created? ruby-pro carries too much baggage with it - there's
the impression (warranted or not) of elitism, and the pressure to
maintain the perceived "pro" level of posting is almost guaranteed to
deaden the list.

martin

Marc Heiler

8/9/2008 10:13:00 AM

0

> It has now become a friendly, familliar, and reliable tool instead of the
> rough, cutting edge one it used to be.

I am not sure to what you refer but in my experience the ruby community
was rather friendly even ~4 years ago.

The only difference I seem to have noticed is that there are now a lot
more people using ruby compared to ~4 years ago, and I also mean non-RoR
using ruby guys.
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....