topaz
8/17/2010 10:33:00 AM
On Aug 16, 10:42 pm, JD <jgdohe...@comcast.net> wrote:
> SNIPPED TO MAKE THE POST LESS CONFUSING
> Of course, during the time of Moorish Spain, the Moslems always gave
> the jews a fairer ride than the Christians did. They had more rights,
> and were not compelled to convert, unlike the Inquisition.
I may need to do more research however it has been my impression that
both Muslims and Jews were not welcome in Spain during the
Inquisition, and that the Inquisition itself may have been triggered
in part because of wars between the all expansive Ottoman Empire and
Spain , or at least, some bitter memories on the part of the Catholic
Spanish leadership.
It is possible that the Muslims may have accepted Jews because they
had a common enemy--Catholic Spain --during that terrible time. You
know the Arab saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." Jews
still most likely were relegated to dhimmi status , not good at all.
> On Aug 16, 4:30 pm, topaz <topazgal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I believe when it comes to Islam, it can come down to the following:
> > does the person adhere to the purist doctrine or a more modern version
> > of Islam, and also does the person see the world as believer versus
> > nonbeliever (kfir vs Muslim). If the individual divides the world
> > into kfir vs. Muslim then they would believe that the kfir
> > (nonbeliever) can be treated by a different set of rules than their
> > fellow Muslim and that can be where the trouble starts.
>
> What you are describing happens with jews & Christians as well. There
> are plenty of believers in both camps who feel like only their fellow
> believers have the goods and are worthy people.
It is true that in many faiths, fundamentalists can believe that their
faith is the purist, best, only doctrine and it can affect how they
relate to same faith individuals who are less orthodox.
This can cause all kinds of problems and tensions. That being said,
the way a Muslim (going strictly by the Koran, Hadiths, and Sira) is
to treat a kfir is barbaric by today's standards....kfirs can be
raped, robbed, killed, enslaved, tortured and jailed simply for having
different beliefs. Freedoms we take for granted such as freedom of
worship and freedom of speech are severely curtailed if one is a
kfir. Do all Muslims practice these rules? Of course not. However
in countries where demographically there is a noteably Muslim majority
then things really do change , especially when one considers that
Islam should be viewed not only as a religion but also as a political
system. The purist doctrine of Islam combined with the changing
demographics in many countries is a cause for concern I believe, if
one values democratic concepts such as freedom of worship and freedom
of speech.
The other core challenges we have are 1. the belief by devout Muslims
that the Koran is a perfect book for all time and cannot be changed
and 2. the belief by devout Muslims that Mohammad is a perfect
prophet, and that whatever he said and did should be imitated. If
some flexibility , some modernizaton on a grand scale could be
introduced into the faith and the violent passages of the Koran and
the hadiths could be condemned by the religion itself that would be a
great step towards peace. That is why I have great respect for people
like Ishad Menji (pardon mis-spellings of her name) and apostates like
Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
> > If someone
> > is a Muslim who does not believe in the purist (Taliban or Iranian
> > leadership) doctrine, and if they believe that rules about real
> > peace, kindness, sacredness of life etc apply to all human beings
> > then that is a great place to start and can lead to the altruism and
> > sacrifice that the Albanians demonstrated with their concept of 'besa'.
>
> Amen; Shalom, Salaam.