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comp.lang.ruby

Posting Culture

Robert Klemme

5/7/2008 11:14:00 AM

All,

is it just me or do we see a shift in postings toward the "can you
please do my work for me?" type of questions? I get the impression
that reading Ruby docs and other types of research are going more and
more out of fashion. Do we give away too much for free? I know,
nobody has to reply to those questions, but I believe this tendency is
doing harm to the culture of this (still) friendly community.

Just to make it clear: I am not generally discrediting people that
seek support but I do have a heavy dislike for laziness.

Regards

robert

--
use.inject do |as, often| as.you_can - without end

19 Answers

Rick DeNatale

5/7/2008 11:59:00 AM

0

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 7:14 AM, Robert Klemme
<shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:
> All,
>
> is it just me or do we see a shift in postings toward the "can you
> please do my work for me?" type of questions?

Now why didn't <strong>I</strong> think of doing that? It would have
saved me a lot of work! <G>

--
Rick DeNatale

My blog on Ruby
http://talklikeaduck.denh...

Michal Suchanek

5/7/2008 12:04:00 PM

0

On 07/05/2008, Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:
> All,
>
> is it just me or do we see a shift in postings toward the "can you
> please do my work for me?" type of questions? I get the impression
> that reading Ruby docs and other types of research are going more and
> more out of fashion. Do we give away too much for free? I know,
> nobody has to reply to those questions, but I believe this tendency is
> doing harm to the culture of this (still) friendly community.
>
> Just to make it clear: I am not generally discrediting people that
> seek support but I do have a heavy dislike for laziness.

Hello

I usually try to look up some docs (which are quite hard to search,
and quite vague), do some tests in irb, and then ask on irc.

I sometimes cannot figure out some elementary stuff because I do not
know the right method name for ri or overlook some not so obvious use
of a method.

I do not read all the posts, and there may be some that should be
answered by looking into Pickaxe. Then again, people who do not know
programing, and start with Ruby might have trouble with basic stuff
repeatedly.

In my view asking a question that can be looked up in the docs on a
mailing list is a waste of time however you look at it. So ti must be
that those people either do not know about the docs or do not know how
to use them. Or perhaps cannot understand what's written there yet.

I remember starting when there was no Internet, at least here. It
prevented stupid questions as there was no place to ask but it was
tough.

Regards

Michal

Eivind Eklund

5/7/2008 12:44:00 PM

0

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Robert Klemme
<shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:
> is it just me or do we see a shift in postings toward the "can you
> please do my work for me?" type of questions? I get the impression
> that reading Ruby docs and other types of research are going more and
> more out of fashion.

My impression is that this comes and goes a bit; occasionally, people
show up that abuse it a bit, and when there's (by random chance) a few
of them active at a time, it seems that we're having more problems,
and then the problem goes away again (because they get qualified
enough to not ask so much).

I see the friendliness of the mailing list as important, and that
these questions aren't much of a problem. May have to do with my
email client being good at sorting things into threads, though.

Eivind.

Aaron Turner

5/7/2008 3:51:00 PM

0

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 4:14 AM, Robert Klemme
<shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:
> All,
>
> is it just me or do we see a shift in postings toward the "can you
> please do my work for me?" type of questions? I get the impression
> that reading Ruby docs and other types of research are going more and
> more out of fashion. Do we give away too much for free? I know,
> nobody has to reply to those questions, but I believe this tendency is
> doing harm to the culture of this (still) friendly community.
>
> Just to make it clear: I am not generally discrediting people that
> seek support but I do have a heavy dislike for laziness.

It's not just a Ruby issue. I see it in a variety of other forums and
I too find the general laziness out there annoying. It's even worse
when people don't bother to understand their problem sufficiently to
even know what information they need to give you. Things like "it
won't compile" and don't bother to mention what OS they're using or
provide the actual error message. *sigh*

Generally, I find the best solution is to reply with the URL to
appropriate resource (online docs, google search results, etc). If
it's really bad then I send them:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-ques...

--
Aaron Turner
http://s...
http://tcpreplay.s... - Pcap editing & replay tools for Unix
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin

Albert Schlef

5/7/2008 4:14:00 PM

0

> > seek support but I do have a heavy dislike for laziness.
>
> It's not just a Ruby issue. I see it in a variety of other forums

I second that.

>
> I too find the general laziness out there annoying.

Yep. And the problem is that you can't realy ignore these people. Sure,
you can avoid answering them, but inside you feel annoyed at their
unfriendly bahavior. It leaves a bad taste.
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Michael Linfield

5/7/2008 5:03:00 PM

0

Robert Klemme wrote:

> is it just me or do we see a shift in postings toward the "can you
> please do my work for me?" type of questions?

Well forums have been an ultimate resource for the under-educated. They
have the attitudes of 'Why bother waste my time looking for the answer
when someone will just give it to me.'

Yes those people are annoying, but its not really hurting anyone besides
themselves, can't even really see why they are programming if they don't
bother to understand what code they're writing. About 99% of the fun of
programming is the thrill of figuring out HOW to do something in my
opinion, not just going immediately to the forums when things aren't
going your way the first time.

- Mac
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Robert Klemme

5/8/2008 7:39:00 AM

0

2008/5/7 Michael Linfield <globyy3000@hotmail.com>:
> Yes those people are annoying, but its not really hurting anyone besides
> themselves, can't even really see why they are programming if they don't
> bother to understand what code they're writing.

I am not sure about that: if people do not bother to do their work
properly then - if programming is not hobby or education - someone
eventually will suffer, namely users of the software, colleagues that
have to fix it and all other people involved (support personnel for
example).

> About 99% of the fun of
> programming is the thrill of figuring out HOW to do something in my
> opinion, not just going immediately to the forums when things aren't
> going your way the first time.

Exactly. And this is especially true since things you learn yourself
(probably the hard way) stick much better than things you just looked
up somewhere.

Kind regards

robert

--
use.inject do |as, often| as.you_can - without end

Robert Dober

5/8/2008 8:02:00 AM

0

On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Robert Klemme
<shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:
> All,
>
> is it just me or do we see a shift in postings toward the "can you
> please do my work for me?" type of questions? I get the impression
> that reading Ruby docs and other types of research are going more and
> more out of fashion. Do we give away too much for free? I know,
> nobody has to reply to those questions, but I believe this tendency is
> doing harm to the culture of this (still) friendly community.
>
> Just to make it clear: I am not generally discrediting people that
> seek support but I do have a heavy dislike for laziness.
>
> Regards
>
> robert
>

Hi Robert

good to post this because I was kind of surprised of some of your
recent replies ;), now I understand.
Hmm it was not a tendency I noted recently I rather felt it was always
a strength of this community to be helpful.
I would love to have the same kind of replies most of us are giving by
example for some Python stuff I am trying to do. (It is because I want
to tame the beast and not because I like its beauty).

Put shortly, no, I do not really feel this tendency, maybe just an
increase in traffic?

Cheers
Robert
> --
> use.inject do |as, often| as.you_can - without end
>
>



--
http://ruby-smalltalk.blo...

---
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.
Ludwig Wittgenstein

Robert Klemme

5/8/2008 9:19:00 AM

0

2008/5/8 Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com>:
> good to post this because I was kind of surprised of some of your
> recent replies ;), now I understand.

:-) If you refer to the brevity of some of my replies, there are
actually several reasons for it: lack of time (i.e. increased work
load at work combined with spring induced reduction of my motivation
to stay on the keyboard after work) and attempting to help spark
understanding vs. giving complete explanation (see e.g. my reply in
thread "Interesting result of a newbie mistake" which was repeated
later on by Christophe with additional prose).

> Hmm it was not a tendency I noted recently I rather felt it was always
> a strength of this community to be helpful.

Yes, that's for sure. I wrote my initial posting in order to
*maintain* this helpfulness.

> I would love to have the same kind of replies most of us are giving by
> example for some Python stuff I am trying to do. (It is because I want
> to tame the beast and not because I like its beauty).

*g*

> Put shortly, no, I do not really feel this tendency, maybe just an
> increase in traffic?

That may well be. I wasn't sure that's why I asked.

Kind regards

robert

--
use.inject do |as, often| as.you_can - without end

Robert Dober

5/8/2008 9:47:00 AM

0

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 11:19 AM, Robert Klemme
<shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 2008/5/8 Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com>:
I however stumbled on one post which was a perfect proof of your
feeling :(. Shortly after my initial reply *of course* (Murphy's law
again).
Cheers
Robert
--
http://ruby-smalltalk.blo...

---
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.
Ludwig Wittgenstein