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comp.lang.python

Trac - Does it make sense to keep http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/4315 open?

Ilias Lazaridis

3/9/2008 9:25:00 AM

Response to message [1] on trac.devel (as I cannot write there, due to
an informally applied censorship)

Mr. Boos: "I left that ticket open simply to avoid having someone to
reopen it over
and over..."

(note to reader: this someone is me)

Mr. Boos, the ticket status should reflect reality. So, if reality
says "the ticket is open", no one can (should" close it.

The essens of the ticket is, that you should trust you own results.
You should use your development version, in order to obtain feedback.
Of course I understand (seeing the terrible processes of the team),
that you distrust your own results, prefering to let user do the dirty
work of development-version-usage.

Your inability to follow even the most rational suggestions subjecting
development-processes, e.g. this one:

http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/6614#...

will lead (together with the terrible quality of the trac source-code
base) soon to an even more stucked development progress. Be assured
that users see this (although they don't say much, like me).

Do you actually realize that you're working since over a year on
0.11?

Nothing is more fun that to watch the trac project running into one
after another problem during development. At least you give other
teams a good example of "how to ruine a good open-source product".

http://case.lazaridis.com/wiki...

-

To readers:

The project hunts since months a memory-leak - without success.

I'm wondering that python makes so much trouble in finding it. Seems
to be another very fundamental reason to leave this "joke of a
language" (python).

-

[1]

http://groups.google.com/group/trac-dev/msg/1cbcaf...

From: Christian Boos <cb...@neuf.fr>
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote:

> Does it make sense to keep http://trac.edgewall.org/t... open?

I left that ticket open simply to avoid having someone to reopen it
over
and over... That ticket is a bit useless in that it has anyway always
been the policy of the project to run the latest stable release. And
that works quite well in practice. I imagine t.e.o would already be
running 0.11b1 now, if we didn't have those memory issues. As for
documenting the blocker issues, doing that directly on the milestone
page is more effective anyway. So I'd say let's just not make a fuss
about this one and we'll close it once t.e.o gets upgraded to 0.11.

-- Christian
12 Answers

Arlen Cuss

3/9/2008 10:21:00 AM

0

[Note: parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

Hi,

On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Ilias Lazaridis <ilias@lazaridis.com> wrote:

> Response to message [1] on trac.devel (as I cannot write there, due to
> an informally applied censorship)
>

How come this message ended up here?

Arlen

Ilias Lazaridis

3/9/2008 11:07:00 AM

0

On Mar 9, 12:20 pm, Arlen Cuss <cel...@sairyx.org> wrote:
> [Note:  parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

It's still 'illegal', as you're completely off-topic.

>
> Hi,
>
> On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Ilias Lazaridis <il...@lazaridis.com> wrote:
> > Response to message [1] on trac.devel (as I cannot write there, due to
> > an informally applied censorship)
>
> How come this message ended up here?

intentional, see the original message header:

"Newsgroups: comp.lang.python, comp.lang.ruby, comp.lang.perl.misc"

Now you can start guessing why this thread is valid for c.l.r.

>
> Arlen

Arlen Cuss

3/9/2008 11:17:00 AM

0

[Note: parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

Hi,

On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 10:09 PM, Ilias Lazaridis <ilias@lazaridis.com>
wrote:

> On Mar 9, 12:20 pm, Arlen Cuss <cel...@sairyx.org> wrote:
> > [Note: parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]
> It's still 'illegal', as you're completely off-topic.
>

Note; it's generated by my user-agent, I didn't write that, nor am I aware
of any context whatsoever. It probably has been through several filters,
because I'm posting to an ML. I have no idea how it gets to the newsgroup
from there.

intentional, see the original message header:
>
> "Newsgroups: comp.lang.python, comp.lang.ruby, comp.lang.perl.misc"
>
> Now you can start guessing why this thread is valid for c.l.r.


I didn't see that. Note I'm posting from the ruby-talk mailing list. You're
talking about a personal issue you have with some of the Trac team members.
I'm still not understanding why this thread is valid for c.l.r - maybe
python, but otherwise, what does it have to do with anything?

No offence intended, but this seems way off.

Arlen

Ilias Lazaridis

3/9/2008 11:52:00 AM

0

On Mar 9, 1:16 pm, Arlen Cuss <cel...@sairyx.org> wrote:
> [Note:  parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]
>
> Hi,
>
> On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 10:09 PM, Ilias Lazaridis <il...@lazaridis.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 9, 12:20 pm, Arlen Cuss <cel...@sairyx.org> wrote:
> > > [Note:  parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]
> > It's still 'illegal', as you're completely off-topic.
>
> Note; it's generated by my user-agent, I didn't write that, nor am I aware
> of any context whatsoever. It probably has been through several filters,
> because I'm posting to an ML. I have no idea how it gets to the newsgroup
> from there.

You should possbily move your user-agent to the trash.

> intentional, see the original message header:
>
> > "Newsgroups: comp.lang.python, comp.lang.ruby, comp.lang.perl.misc"
>
> > Now you can start guessing why this thread is valid for c.l.r.
>
> I didn't see that. Note I'm posting from the ruby-talk mailing list. You're
> talking about a personal issue you have with some of the Trac team members.

No, it's not a personal issue.

> I'm still not understanding why this thread is valid for c.l.r - maybe
> python, but otherwise, what does it have to do with anything?

The trac-team censors my comments on the trac devel and user lists.

Thus I use the next related public media, which is comp.lang.python.

Additionally, I publish to 2 further related groups (related to my
work
and to trac, as some open-source teams use it), thus this trac-
desaster
get's some visibility.

> No offence intended, but this seems way off.

Ruby is an open-source language, thus the community should care about
"wild-west-censorship" within open-source projects.

Ok, look at this (go get something in-topic):

http://case.lazaridis.com/wiki/RubyO...

> Arlen

Phillip Gawlowski

3/9/2008 12:14:00 PM

0

Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
>> No offence intended, but this seems way off.
>>
>
> Ruby is an open-source language, thus the community should care about
> "wild-west-censorship" within open-source projects.
>
So, it *is* way off. How developers run their projects is of not even
tangentially related to the community around a *programming language*.

Also, your argument is a textbook example of the "cum hoc, ergo propter
hoc" fallacy. That Ruby is FLOSS does not mean that its users are
interested in the politics (or even development) of FLOSS, much less the
trac project.

- Phillip Gawlowski

P.S.: Check your MUA, Ilias, since it doesn't do proper line breaks.
Maybe move it to the trash, as you ever so kindly suggested to Arlen?

Ilias Lazaridis

3/9/2008 12:25:00 PM

0

On Mar 9, 2:13 pm, Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackr...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
> Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
> >> No offence intended, but this seems way off.
>
> > Ruby is an open-source language, thus the community should care about
> > "wild-west-censorship" within open-source projects.
>
> So, it *is* way off. How developers run their projects is of not even
> tangentially related to the community around a *programming language*.

of course it is.

It has a direct relation to the evolution speed of a language.

> Also, your argument is a textbook example of the "cum hoc, ergo propter
> hoc" fallacy.

No idea of what you are talking about.

> That Ruby is FLOSS does not mean that its users are
> interested in the politics (or even development) of FLOSS, much less the
> trac project.

I don't care about the users.

I care about me (Ruby is still my 2nd choice language, thus I'm
interested that ruby projects which use trac get the information about
it, thus e.g. they decide easier to move to another (e.g. ruby-
centric) tracking system.

> - Phillip Gawlowski
>
> P.S.: Check your MUA, Ilias, since it doesn't do proper line breaks.
> Maybe move it to the trash, as you ever so kindly suggested to Arlen?

You are right. This google groups thing is terrible.

James Gray

3/9/2008 3:43:00 PM

0

On Mar 9, 2008, at 6:16 AM, Arlen Cuss wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 10:09 PM, Ilias Lazaridis <ilias@lazaridis.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mar 9, 12:20 pm, Arlen Cuss <cel...@sairyx.org> wrote:
>>> [Note: parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]
>> It's still 'illegal', as you're completely off-topic.
>>
>
> Note; it's generated by my user-agent, I didn't write that, nor am I
> aware
> of any context whatsoever. It probably has been through several
> filters,
> because I'm posting to an ML. I have no idea how it gets to the
> newsgroup
> from there.

The "note" was added by the Ruby Talk Gateway, which may have removed
some non-text portions of the email when it moved it from the Ruby
Talk mailing list to comp.lang.ruby.

James Edward Gray II

James Gray

3/9/2008 3:47:00 PM

0

On Mar 9, 2008, at 7:29 AM, Ilias Lazaridis wrote:

> I don't care about the users.

I love this quote. Pure Ilias.

Folks, Ilias is a professional troll. Please resist the urge to feed
him:

http://zenspider.com/Languages/Ruby/IliasIs...

James Edward Gray II

James Britt

3/9/2008 4:33:00 PM

0

James Gray wrote:

>
> Folks, Ilias is a professional troll. Please resist the urge to feed him:

Yes; this cannot be over-emphasized.

--
James Britt

www.rubyaz.org - Hacking in the Desert
www.risingtidesoftware.com - Wicked Cool Coding
www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky

3/9/2008 5:32:00 PM

0

James Britt wrote:
> James Gray wrote:
>
>>
>> Folks, Ilias is a professional troll. Please resist the urge to feed
>> him:
>
> Yes; this cannot be over-emphasized.

A *professional* troll? There's *money* in it? This changes everything!!

:)