[lnkForumImage]
TotalShareware - Download Free Software
Confronta i prezzi di migliaia di prodotti.
Asp Forum
 Home | Login | Register | Search 


 

Forums >

comp.lang.ruby

Current Quizmaster Retiring

James Gray

11/9/2007 3:05:00 PM

When I started the Ruby Quiz project, I made some off-hand comment =20
along the lines of, "Surely I can keep it going for a couple of =20
years=85" No matter how you measure, we have passed that goal.

The Ruby Quiz has now run for over three years calendar time. If you =20=

prefer to count quizzes released, we're ten shy of three full years =20
of quizzes. That's beyond anything I ever imagined.

I cannot properly express how much I've enjoyed running the quiz. It =20=

is, quite literally, how I learned the Ruby programming language. =20
Summarizing the solutions each week had me reading through countless =20
examples of great code where I picked up idioms, learned new =20
algorithms, and just generally saw what good programming looks like. =20=

That's just what I personally got out of it.

Externally, the quiz grew well beyond my expectations. It spawned a =20
book, some of the quizzes have been translated into other languages, =20
and I've seen it referred to in many places as a terrific source of =20
"Getting Started with Ruby" projects.

I say it a lot, but I want to once again thank all who have =20
contributed to the quiz in any way. You have created an amazing =20
resource.

If there is a downside to running a project like this, it would have =20
to be that it eats time. I've automated the Ruby Quiz as much as I =20
am able to, but it still takes several hours a week for me. That's a =20=

combination of all that it requires: generating quiz ideas, working =20
with contributors to get their ideas ready, preparing a problem for =20
release, collecting solutions as they come in, playing with the =20
solutions enough that I understand them, and summarizing what I saw. =20=

I also try to participate in the discussions.

I've gladly maintained this continuing commitment, but I think we all =20=

knew I couldn't keep it up forever. I'm involved in many Ruby =20
projects now and I would like to give some of them the time and =20
attention I've given to the Ruby Quiz these last three years.

Beyond the constraints of time, I'm running out of good quiz ideas. =20
The well isn't bone dry just yet, but I'm sometimes scrambling to =20
keep the ideas flowing now.

Given all of that, I've decided that the end of my watch over the =20
Ruby Quiz has come. I will run ten more quizzes, so we can say that =20
I covered three years no matter how the count is done. Quiz 156 will =20=

be my last challenge.

Don't make the mistake of thinking this means the quiz is winding =20
down. We're going to have some great content in our last few months, =20=

starting with this week's problem which I think is great. We're =20
going out at the top of our game like all the greats projects do.

My hope is that we'll see a new quizmaster grab the reigns and launch =20=

Ruby Quiz 2.0. I often have to sit out problems I really want to =20
play in just because there isn't enough free time left for solving =20
after running the show, so you could count on the fact that at least =20
one person here would be an active contributor. Besides, if you want =20=

to learn a whole lot of Ruby voodoo, I can assure you there's no =20
better way. Think it over.

I'll close this long message now and get back to running the quiz. =20
Send me your great ideas for our homestretch run.

Thanks again to all quiz fans.

James Edward Gray II
27 Answers

Robert Klemme

11/9/2007 3:16:00 PM

0

2007/11/9, James Edward Gray II <james@grayproductions.net>:
> When I started the Ruby Quiz project, I made some off-hand comment
> along the lines of, "Surely I can keep it going for a couple of
> years=85" No matter how you measure, we have passed that goal.
>
> The Ruby Quiz has now run for over three years calendar time. If you
> prefer to count quizzes released, we're ten shy of three full years
> of quizzes. That's beyond anything I ever imagined.
>
> I cannot properly express how much I've enjoyed running the quiz. It
> is, quite literally, how I learned the Ruby programming language.
> Summarizing the solutions each week had me reading through countless
> examples of great code where I picked up idioms, learned new
> algorithms, and just generally saw what good programming looks like.
> That's just what I personally got out of it.
>
> Externally, the quiz grew well beyond my expectations. It spawned a
> book, some of the quizzes have been translated into other languages,
> and I've seen it referred to in many places as a terrific source of
> "Getting Started with Ruby" projects.
>
> I say it a lot, but I want to once again thank all who have
> contributed to the quiz in any way. You have created an amazing
> resource.
>
> If there is a downside to running a project like this, it would have
> to be that it eats time. I've automated the Ruby Quiz as much as I
> am able to, but it still takes several hours a week for me. That's a
> combination of all that it requires: generating quiz ideas, working
> with contributors to get their ideas ready, preparing a problem for
> release, collecting solutions as they come in, playing with the
> solutions enough that I understand them, and summarizing what I saw.
> I also try to participate in the discussions.
>
> I've gladly maintained this continuing commitment, but I think we all
> knew I couldn't keep it up forever. I'm involved in many Ruby
> projects now and I would like to give some of them the time and
> attention I've given to the Ruby Quiz these last three years.
>
> Beyond the constraints of time, I'm running out of good quiz ideas.
> The well isn't bone dry just yet, but I'm sometimes scrambling to
> keep the ideas flowing now.
>
> Given all of that, I've decided that the end of my watch over the
> Ruby Quiz has come. I will run ten more quizzes, so we can say that
> I covered three years no matter how the count is done. Quiz 156 will
> be my last challenge.
>
> Don't make the mistake of thinking this means the quiz is winding
> down. We're going to have some great content in our last few months,
> starting with this week's problem which I think is great. We're
> going out at the top of our game like all the greats projects do.
>
> My hope is that we'll see a new quizmaster grab the reigns and launch
> Ruby Quiz 2.0. I often have to sit out problems I really want to
> play in just because there isn't enough free time left for solving
> after running the show, so you could count on the fact that at least
> one person here would be an active contributor. Besides, if you want
> to learn a whole lot of Ruby voodoo, I can assure you there's no
> better way. Think it over.
>
> I'll close this long message now and get back to running the quiz.
> Send me your great ideas for our homestretch run.
>
> Thanks again to all quiz fans.
>
> James Edward Gray II

James, thank *you* for the efforts you have put into this! I am
really surprised to hear that the quiz has been running for *three
years* now. Since I still clearly remember the first discussions
about creating this quiz this probably means I am a <place disgraceful
description for elderly people here>. Unfortunately I never managed
to try to solve quizzes as much as I would have liked to. Time is
tight on my side as well...

Thanks again!

robert

--=20
use.inject do |as, often| as.you_can - without end

Dale Martenson

11/9/2007 4:11:00 PM

0

On Nov 9, 9:05 am, James Edward Gray II <ja...@grayproductions.net>
wrote:
> When I started the Ruby Quiz project, I made some off-hand comment
> along the lines of, "Surely I can keep it going for a couple of
> years..." No matter how you measure, we have passed that goal.
>
> The Ruby Quiz has now run for over three years calendar time. If you
> prefer to count quizzes released, we're ten shy of three full years
> of quizzes. That's beyond anything I ever imagined.
>
> I cannot properly express how much I've enjoyed running the quiz. It
> is, quite literally, how I learned the Ruby programming language.
> Summarizing the solutions each week had me reading through countless
> examples of great code where I picked up idioms, learned new
> algorithms, and just generally saw what good programming looks like.
> That's just what I personally got out of it.
>
> Externally, the quiz grew well beyond my expectations. It spawned a
> book, some of the quizzes have been translated into other languages,
> and I've seen it referred to in many places as a terrific source of
> "Getting Started with Ruby" projects.
>
> I say it a lot, but I want to once again thank all who have
> contributed to the quiz in any way. You have created an amazing
> resource.
>
> If there is a downside to running a project like this, it would have
> to be that it eats time. I've automated the Ruby Quiz as much as I
> am able to, but it still takes several hours a week for me. That's a
> combination of all that it requires: generating quiz ideas, working
> with contributors to get their ideas ready, preparing a problem for
> release, collecting solutions as they come in, playing with the
> solutions enough that I understand them, and summarizing what I saw.
> I also try to participate in the discussions.
>
> I've gladly maintained this continuing commitment, but I think we all
> knew I couldn't keep it up forever. I'm involved in many Ruby
> projects now and I would like to give some of them the time and
> attention I've given to the Ruby Quiz these last three years.
>
> Beyond the constraints of time, I'm running out of good quiz ideas.
> The well isn't bone dry just yet, but I'm sometimes scrambling to
> keep the ideas flowing now.
>
> Given all of that, I've decided that the end of my watch over the
> Ruby Quiz has come. I will run ten more quizzes, so we can say that
> I covered three years no matter how the count is done. Quiz 156 will
> be my last challenge.
>
> Don't make the mistake of thinking this means the quiz is winding
> down. We're going to have some great content in our last few months,
> starting with this week's problem which I think is great. We're
> going out at the top of our game like all the greats projects do.
>
> My hope is that we'll see a new quizmaster grab the reigns and launch
> Ruby Quiz 2.0. I often have to sit out problems I really want to
> play in just because there isn't enough free time left for solving
> after running the show, so you could count on the fact that at least
> one person here would be an active contributor. Besides, if you want
> to learn a whole lot of Ruby voodoo, I can assure you there's no
> better way. Think it over.
>
> I'll close this long message now and get back to running the quiz.
> Send me your great ideas for our homestretch run.
>
> Thanks again to all quiz fans.
>
> James Edward Gray II



JEG II,

Ruby Quiz has become a valuable tool to the community to teach Ruby to
newcomers and allow existing Rubyists to flex their programming skill.
Your dedication of 3 years to this endeavor is much appreciated.

Thank you,
Dale Martenson

John Joyce

11/9/2007 4:23:00 PM

0

Yes, thank you James.
Ruby Quiz has been and will (we hope) continue to be an invaluable
contribution to Ruby and simply to those wanting to learn and/or
improve their Ruby and/or their programming skills in general.

James Gray

11/9/2007 4:25:00 PM

0

On Nov 9, 2007, at 10:15 AM, Dale Martenson wrote:

> Ruby Quiz has become a valuable tool to the community to teach Ruby to
> newcomers and allow existing Rubyists to flex their programming skill.

That brings up a good point I forgot to mention.

All of the existing Ruby Quiz material is going to stay right where
it is. I'm paid up on the domain for many years to come and it's
piggybacked on my personal hosting account, so have no fear of it
disappearing anytime soon. It will continue to be a great tool even
if no new quizzes are run.

James Edward Gray II

Phrogz

11/9/2007 4:53:00 PM

0

On Nov 9, 8:05 am, James Edward Gray II <ja...@grayproductions.net>
wrote:
> Given all of that, I've decided that the end of my watch over the
> Ruby Quiz has come. I will run ten more quizzes, so we can say that
> I covered three years no matter how the count is done. Quiz 156 will
> be my last challenge.

I'd like to echo the thanks of others. Having authored and summarized
just a few quizzes myself, I know how much time it takes all too well.
I'm frankly amazed at your dedication that you kept it going this
long.

As I see it, ongoing Ruby Quiz requires:
* New ideas for quizzes
* Vetting of the quizzes (rejecting or improving bad ones)
* Scheduling and running the Quiz itself
* Interested parties actually solving the quiz
* (Ideally) A good writeup/summary

I'd like to direct this thread to brainstorming on how to make this
feasible for the future.

For sure, the simplest solution would be to find a new quizmaster to
take the reigns. But even that would almost certainly be a temporary
solution. It seems to me that this should be possible (like many open
source projects) as a community effort with a small amount of steering
by a group of individuals.


Here's what I envision/propose:

* RubyQuiz.com (or RubyQuiz2.com, or whatever) has an interface where
anyone can submit ideas for new quizzes. Perhaps a public wiki for
editing the quiz text, or perhaps a login-based system where only the
author can edit it. (Or perhaps an option that lets the quiz submitter
choose if it's publicly editable or not.)

* Everyone can vote on upcoming quizzes, granting each a rating based
on fun, estimated time to complete, difficulty level, and maybe even
real-world applicability. Maybe there are flags for quizzes that
involve performance optimizations, those that are about golfing, those
that are NP-Hard and require heuristics, those that are about route-
finding, and so on.

* Possibly a small-ish group of admins is given the ability to change
the scheduling of upcoming quizzes.

* The application automates the posting of the quiz to the mailing
list.

* Ideally, the application monitors the gateway or ruby-talk archive
for submissions with an appropriate topic and auto includes them in
the listing of solutions and/or discussion. (Again, maybe admins have
the ability to hand-pick posts to include.)

* Although it would be nice for someone to volunteer to write up a
summary, I'm not sure it's necessary. The summary might be implicit in
followup discussions about solutions held on the mailing list.


The potential downsides I see of this are:
* Giving everyone visibility to upcoming quizzes takes a little bit
away from the sense of competition. I like that everyone sees a quiz
at the same time and starts working on it at the same time. It's not
really a race, but at the same time the flavor of the event changes (I
think) if people can spend weeks programming for an upcoming quiz and
then drop a crazy huge solution. I feel that it would discourage smal-
time hackers.

* When the responsibility is on everyone's shoulders to submit
quizzes, it may be that no one will step up. That would be
disappointing, but not disastrous. If the queue is empty, there's no
quiz that week. Maybe even the system sends a polite encouragement to
the list asking for submissions in lieu of a quiz.


The potential upsides I see of this are:
* Seeing upcoming quizzes may give good ideas for interesting
variations. I actually anticipate occasional interesting influxes that
may queue up 10-20 quizzes at a time.

* Voting for quizzes on multiple axes will record that information for
newcomers to Ruby. Right now we say "Go browse the quiz site, and look
for entries with lots of answers; they're probably easy." Wouldn't it
be cool to be able to view all solved quizzes and say "Show me the
quizzes that probably only take about an hour, with a high rating of
real-world applicability, and that are rated moderate or difficult to
solve?"


I dunno how much of the above JEG II has already written for personal
administration, but I bet it would be a nice starting step.

Phrogz

11/9/2007 4:57:00 PM

0

On Nov 9, 9:52 am, Phrogz <phr...@mac.com> wrote:
> * Giving everyone visibility to upcoming quizzes takes a little bit
> away from the sense of competition. I like that everyone sees a quiz
> at the same time and starts working on it at the same time. It's not
> really a race, but at the same time the flavor of the event changes (I
> think) if people can spend weeks programming for an upcoming quiz and
> then drop a crazy huge solution. I feel that it would discourage smal-
> time hackers.

If others also feel that this would change the flavor too much, my
previous proposal could be modified as such:

* Everyone can submit ideas, but they can only ever see their own
idea. They may carry on a conversation (on the site) with the site
admins about how to improve the quiz.

* Site admins (maybe a group of 10-15) can see all quizzes, and are
the only ones who can vote/categorize quizzes.

This removes the fun of seeing a huge upcoming queue from everyone,
but keeps the surprise aspect of the quizzes.

Tom Copeland

11/9/2007 5:20:00 PM

0

On Sat, 2007-11-10 at 00:05 +0900, James Edward Gray II wrote:
> The Ruby Quiz has now run for over three years calendar time. If you
> prefer to count quizzes released, we're ten shy of three full years
> of quizzes. That's beyond anything I ever imagined.

Thanks, James, for all the work you've done on this! And the book (*)
is great; it's a wonderful set of lessons in Ruby idioms. Thanks again,

Yours,

Tom

(*) http://www.pragprog.com/titl...

Drew Olson

11/9/2007 5:27:00 PM

0

James Gray wrote:
> Thanks again to all quiz fans.
>
> James Edward Gray II

James -

Thanks so much for everything you've done. Your site basically taught me
the language and your attitude on the site and quiz reviews has been a
major influence on the great culture of the ruby community today.

Thanks again and let's hope someone worthy will take up the site after
you've left.

- Drew
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

matthew.moss.coder

11/9/2007 5:44:00 PM

0

Message.new("Simply, thanks.").sendTo(:James)


On the future of RubyQuiz... I almost jumped up, waving my arms, to
say, "Pick me! Pick me!" Then my brain kicked in...

Seriously, though, I think I could manage much of what James has done,
perhaps with a bit of help. I have plenty of webspace going unused in
a textdrive account, so could setup shop there. I have to run off at
the moment, so I haven't read through Phrogz comments just yet, though
I will later...

In any case, gotta run at the moment, but will come back later to put
some an additional "too sense" in.

James Gray

11/9/2007 6:28:00 PM

0

On Nov 9, 2007, at 10:55 AM, Phrogz wrote:

> I'd like to echo the thanks of others. Having authored and summarized
> just a few quizzes myself, I know how much time it takes all too well.
> I'm frankly amazed at your dedication that you kept it going this
> long.

Thanks to all of you for the kind words.

> * RubyQuiz.com (or RubyQuiz2.com, or whatever) has an interface where
> anyone can submit ideas for new quizzes.

This is a side concern, but I do vote we split any new Ruby Quiz
efforts off on a new domain.

I've tried building my own version two site in the past and one of
the issues with something like that is incorporating all of the old
material. It's a pain and thus I vote we just don't do it. It's far
easier to just turn the old site into the archive for the old content
and have it link to current efforts.

> * Ideally, the application monitors the gateway or ruby-talk archive
> for submissions with an appropriate topic and auto includes them in
> the listing of solutions and/or discussion. (Again, maybe admins have
> the ability to hand-pick posts to include.)

I've tried to do this a couple of times now. It's pretty dang
tough. Most of my problems came from wanting to extract the code
from the messages though, so if you avoid that it might not be so bad.

> The potential upsides I see of this are:
> * Seeing upcoming quizzes may give good ideas for interesting
> variations. I actually anticipate occasional interesting influxes that
> may queue up 10-20 quizzes at a time.

The quiz has worked like this, though maybe not 20 at a time. We had
some terrific runs where I didn't build a quiz for quite some time.

> I dunno how much of the above JEG II has already written for personal
> administration, but I bet it would be a nice starting step.

All of my old scripts are pretty tied to my current setup, so they
won't be of much use. I've been wanting to replace them for a long
time now, so you're definitely going to want to build new tools.

Of course, if you want to know about all the mistakes I made with my
setup, I have a lot to say about that. ;)

James Edward Gray II