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Re: IronRuby...will it be like J++?

John Joyce

10/22/2007 2:46:00 PM

Check the archives of Ruby-Talk.
The guy in charge of IronRuby is a nice guy who originally started
doing it on his own. He seems to be quite sincere about making
something right. I wouldn't want to be him for the number of times he
has to pre-defend IronRuby before it's even finished, but he must
have expected some paranoia... it is MS, and they've got a reputation.
It's coming. That's for sure. So let's just wait and see.
Let's hope for the best. Do anticipate Windows-specific API calls to
be made available. Anticipate explaining to newbies who start with
IronRuby, that those Windows-specific API calls won't work on other
platforms.

I would be curious to see what would happen if they tried to create
IronRails.... DHH would not be pleased I suspect...
38 Answers

Phlip

10/22/2007 3:30:00 PM

0

James Britt wrote:

> Check the archives of Ruby-Talk.
> The guy in charge of IronRuby is a nice guy who originally started
> doing it on his own. He seems to be quite sincere about making
> something right. I wouldn't want to be him for the number of times he
> has to pre-defend IronRuby before it's even finished, but he must
> have expected some paranoia... it is MS, and they've got a reputation.

I thought MS had an instant death policy for anyone caught even
thinking about Free Software.

--
Phlip

Austin Ziegler

10/22/2007 3:41:00 PM

0

On 10/22/07, Phlip <phlip2005@gmail.com> wrote:
> James Britt wrote:
> > Check the archives of Ruby-Talk.
> > The guy in charge of IronRuby is a nice guy who originally started
> > doing it on his own. He seems to be quite sincere about making
> > something right. I wouldn't want to be him for the number of times he
> > has to pre-defend IronRuby before it's even finished, but he must
> > have expected some paranoia... it is MS, and they've got a reputation.
> I thought MS had an instant death policy for anyone caught even
> thinking about Free Software.

Except that they hired John in part because of his work on a .NET
bridge for Ruby.

-austin
--
Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com * http://www.halo...
* austin@halostatue.ca * http://www.halo...feed/
* austin@zieglers.ca

James Britt

10/22/2007 6:07:00 PM

0

Phlip wrote:
> James Britt wrote:

BTW, are there really two (or more) people on ruby-talk named James
Britt? Is dangerwillrobinsondanger@gmail.com also a JB? Or is this a
Jimposter?



--
James Britt, the ruby-doc.org guy

Michael T. Richter

10/23/2007 9:23:00 AM

0

On Tue, 2007-23-10 at 00:29 +0900, Phlip wrote:

> > The guy in charge of IronRuby is a nice guy who originally started
> > doing it on his own. He seems to be quite sincere about making
> > something right. I wouldn't want to be him for the number of times he
> > has to pre-defend IronRuby before it's even finished, but he must
> > have expected some paranoia... it is MS, and they've got a reputation.



> I thought MS had an instant death policy for anyone caught even
> thinking about Free Software.



What is essentially the Haskell compiler is free, open-source software
and ... made by Microsoft now, effectively.

--
Michael T. Richter <ttmrichter@gmail.com> (GoogleTalk:
ttmrichter@gmail.com)
Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works
and you don't know why. (Hermann Hesse)

Todd Benson

10/23/2007 10:39:00 AM

0

On 10/23/07, Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> wrote:
> Right now I honestly believe that there is no indication at all that the
> mean for anything else than to make Ruby better and richer, hopefully I and
> them are not wrong...
> Cheers
> Robert

Everyone seems to say these guys are good people. That's all great
and fine, but we mustn't forget the emergent behavior of economic
monsters like MS. They truly take on a life of there own regardless
of the best of intentions. In any case, I agree to wait and see.

Todd

Rick DeNatale

10/23/2007 10:47:00 AM

0

On 10/23/07, Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/23/07, Michael T. Richter <ttmrichter@gmail.com> wrote:
> I believe that M$ intentions are always to benefit M$ (but the same holds
> for Sun, IBM and sorry for those I forgot).

Yes
> That even holds for myself :(.

All of us I'd say, at least those with any intelligence.

> That simply means to watch out, but that should not lead us to deny the
> facts that open source can (temporarily) benefit
> from being aligned with the strategy of such economic monsters.
> Strange however that many - and count me in by all means - feel more
> threatened by Billy's company than by others!
> Is (was) M$ more aggressive? Probably. Do the others a better job in
> concealing that they might do exactly the same under the same circumstances?
> Surely.
> Well I am talking too much, what I really want to say is that although it
> might be rightful to fear, we should respect the great work of the people,
> like Charles, Ola, John and all the others and not mix that up with
> corporate politics.
> Right now I honestly believe that there is no indication at all that the
> mean for anything else than to make Ruby better and richer, hopefully I and
> them are not wrong...

Looking back after a 30+ year career with IBM, much of which included
interactions with both technical and corporate folks from MS, Sun, and
others. I know full well that well-meaning technical folks don't have
full control over corporate strategies and tactics.

As a result, I've got a healthy skepticism over what the corporate
types at MS, Sun, and yes IBM are up to. All three are struggling
with the growing trend of customers looking to the open source
community for development languages and tools instead of proprietary
'solutions.'

Sometimes it's like watching one of those TV poker games, although you
don't usually have the camera that shows the hands.

--
Rick DeNatale

My blog on Ruby
http://talklikeaduck.denh...

Robert Dober

10/23/2007 10:48:00 AM

0

On 10/23/07, Todd Benson <caduceass@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/23/07, Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Right now I honestly believe that there is no indication at all that the
> > mean for anything else than to make Ruby better and richer, hopefully I and
> > them are not wrong...
> > Cheers
> > Robert
>
> Everyone seems to say these guys are good people. That's all great
> and fine, but we mustn't forget the emergent behavior of economic
> monsters like MS. They truly take on a life of there own regardless
> of the best of intentions. In any case, I agree to wait and see.
>
> Todd
>

But that is exactly what I wanted to say:
* These are nice guys (until proven the contrary, do we all agree to
this fundamental human right?)
* But M$, Sun etc are dangerous monsters (until proven the contrary)
* We all depend on such monsters

Sorry if I was not clear.
Robert

--
what do I think about Ruby?
http://ruby-smalltalk.blo...

Rick DeNatale

10/23/2007 10:53:00 AM

0

On 10/23/07, Todd Benson <caduceass@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/23/07, Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Right now I honestly believe that there is no indication at all that the
> > mean for anything else than to make Ruby better and richer, hopefully I and
> > them are not wrong...
> > Cheers
> > Robert
>
> Everyone seems to say these guys are good people. That's all great
> and fine, but we mustn't forget the emergent behavior of economic
> monsters like MS. They truly take on a life of there own regardless
> of the best of intentions. In any case, I agree to wait and see.

http://www.imdb.com/title/...


--
Rick DeNatale

My blog on Ruby
http://talklikeaduck.denh...

Todd Benson

10/23/2007 11:00:00 AM

0

On 10/23/07, Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> wrote:
> But that is exactly what I wanted to say:
> * These are nice guys (until proven the contrary, do we all agree to
> this fundamental human right?)
> * But M$, Sun etc are dangerous monsters (until proven the contrary)
> * We all depend on such monsters
>
> Sorry if I was not clear.
> Robert

I wasn't clear either :-)

My post wasn't aimed at you, but at the thread. I'm still an infant
when it comes to proper group discussion.

Todd

Austin Ziegler

10/23/2007 12:17:00 PM

0

On 10/23/07, Todd Benson <caduceass@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/23/07, Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Right now I honestly believe that there is no indication at all that the
> > mean for anything else than to make Ruby better and richer, hopefully I and
> > them are not wrong...
> > Cheers
> > Robert
> Everyone seems to say these guys are good people. That's all great
> and fine, but we mustn't forget the emergent behavior of economic
> monsters like MS. They truly take on a life of there own regardless
> of the best of intentions. In any case, I agree to wait and see.

I think the biggest risk to IronRuby is the CLR, not the IronRuby
implementation itself. As noted, that's in a reasonably open license.

-austin
--
Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com * http://www.halo...
* austin@halostatue.ca * http://www.halo...feed/
* austin@zieglers.ca