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comp.lang.ruby

cygwin's Ruby (was: Re: Whats going on!?!?

Robert Klemme

10/4/2007 9:16:00 AM

2007/10/2, Phlip <phlip2005@gmail.com>:
> Get CygWin (but not its Ruby), and learn to use BASH, a real command
> line interface. After a little easy tuning it's easier than mouse
> abuse.

Hi Phlip,

I'm curious: why do you discourage usage of cygwin's ruby?

Kind regards

robert
18 Answers

Jay Levitt

10/4/2007 11:28:00 AM

0

On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 18:15:36 +0900, Robert Klemme wrote:

> I'm curious: why do you discourage usage of cygwin's ruby?

Good question; I actually rarely use my Win32 Ruby install anymore, finding
it much easier to launch everything, including Rails, from cygwin, where
all the gems have no problem building their own extlibs.

I develop in Eclipse, which of course is not a cygwin app, but I just point
it at the cygwin interpreter and forget that I have two separate
environments. I keep a cygwin bash window open (via rxvt) so I can do irb,
run scripts, etc.

--
Jay Levitt |
Boston, MA | My character doesn't like it when they
Faster: jay at jay dot fm | cry or shout or hit.
http://... | - Kristoffer

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky

10/4/2007 3:19:00 PM

0

Garry Offord wrote:
> It's good to know that somebody has successfully done this. I've tried in
> the past with mixed results - there seemed to be issues with the "DOS" path
> separators "\" vs.the cygwin "/" but I can't remember the specifics.
>
> You have inspired me to try again!
>
> On 10/4/07, Jay Levitt <jay+news@jay.fm> wrote:
>> On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 18:15:36 +0900, Robert Klemme wrote:
>>
>>> I'm curious: why do you discourage usage of cygwin's ruby?
>> Good question; I actually rarely use my Win32 Ruby install anymore,
>> finding
>> it much easier to launch everything, including Rails, from cygwin, where
>> all the gems have no problem building their own extlibs.
>>
>> I develop in Eclipse, which of course is not a cygwin app, but I just
>> point
>> it at the cygwin interpreter and forget that I have two separate
>> environments. I keep a cygwin bash window open (via rxvt) so I can do
>> irb,
>> run scripts, etc.
>>
>> --
>> Jay Levitt |
>> Boston, MA | My character doesn't like it when they
>> Faster: jay at jay dot fm | cry or shout or hit.
>> http://... | - Kristoffer
>>
>>
>

Cygwin is a crutch. It's a damn good crutch -- don't get me wrong about
that. But quite frankly, if you want to develop Windows applications,
use native Windows tools. If you want to develop LAMP applications, use
LAMP, not Cygwin emulating LAMP.

However ... specific to Ruby, now that Curt Hibbs has found it difficult
to find the time to donate to the One-Click Installer and/or Instant
Rails, there is a gap that needs to be filled. I'd hate to see Cygwin
being the only alternative, and I'm not by any stretch of the
imagination a Windows developer ready to step in with a true Windows MRI
Ruby/Rails solution.

I'm guessing this answer isn't going to please a lot of people, but in
my opinion, your realistic options on a Windows platform are probably
jRuby and IronRuby, in that order. jRuby is in great shape as far as I
can tell, and it might well be faster than Cygwin Ruby by now. I'll let
John Lam speak for the status of IronRuby, but for now it looks like
jRuby is a few months ahead of it.

Matthew Rudy Jacobs

10/4/2007 3:30:00 PM

0

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:

> However ... specific to Ruby, now that Curt Hibbs has found it difficult
> to find the time to donate to the One-Click Installer

Oh gosh.
What does making the one-click-installer actually involve?
I've never tried building ruby from source.
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Robert Klemme

10/4/2007 4:15:00 PM

0

On 04.10.2007 17:18, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
>> On 10/4/07, Jay Levitt <jay+news@jay.fm> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 18:15:36 +0900, Robert Klemme wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm curious: why do you discourage usage of cygwin's ruby?
>>> Good question; I actually rarely use my Win32 Ruby install anymore,
>>> finding
>>> it much easier to launch everything, including Rails, from cygwin, where
>>> all the gems have no problem building their own extlibs.
>>>
>>> I develop in Eclipse, which of course is not a cygwin app, but I just
>>> point
>>> it at the cygwin interpreter and forget that I have two separate
>>> environments. I keep a cygwin bash window open (via rxvt) so I can do
>>> irb,
>>> run scripts, etc.
>
> Cygwin is a crutch. It's a damn good crutch -- don't get me wrong about
> that. But quite frankly, if you want to develop Windows applications,
> use native Windows tools. If you want to develop LAMP applications, use
> LAMP, not Cygwin emulating LAMP.

Hm, cygwin is also a convenient crutch: installing and updating is
pretty easy. No hassle with compiling etc.

Frankly, I had expected a bit more technical detail on deficiencies that
would discount cygwin's Ruby.

> I'm guessing this answer isn't going to please a lot of people, but in
> my opinion, your realistic options on a Windows platform are probably
> jRuby and IronRuby, in that order. jRuby is in great shape as far as I
> can tell, and it might well be faster than Cygwin Ruby by now. I'll let
> John Lam speak for the status of IronRuby, but for now it looks like
> jRuby is a few months ahead of it.

I don't do GUI programming with Ruby and cygwin's Ruby has served me
well so far. I also did not notice significant performance hits (but
then again, I didn't really benchmark different Ruby versions - I just
always found it fast enough). So far I'm more concerned with
performance on a Sun box where the Ruby install seems to crawl... :-)

Kind regards

robert

John Lam (CLR)

10/4/2007 9:28:00 PM

0

> From: M. Edward (Ed) Borasky [mailto:znmeb@cesmail.net]
>
> I'm guessing this answer isn't going to please a lot of people, but in
> my opinion, your realistic options on a Windows platform are probably
> jRuby and IronRuby, in that order. jRuby is in great shape as far as I
> can tell, and it might well be faster than Cygwin Ruby by now. I'll let
> John Lam speak for the status of IronRuby, but for now it looks like
> jRuby is a few months ahead of it.

Well, jRuby is quite a bit ahead of where we are right now; we've got our work cut out for us. But that said, our goal is to make IronRuby the Ruby of choice on the Windows platform ... and for the OS X browser platform as well via our cross-platform CoreCLR implementation that ships in Silverlight.

-John

John Joyce

10/4/2007 11:24:00 PM

0


On Oct 4, 2007, at 4:28 PM, John Lam (DLR) wrote:

>> From: M. Edward (Ed) Borasky [mailto:znmeb@cesmail.net]
>>
>> I'm guessing this answer isn't going to please a lot of people,
>> but in
>> my opinion, your realistic options on a Windows platform are probably
>> jRuby and IronRuby, in that order. jRuby is in great shape as far
>> as I
>> can tell, and it might well be faster than Cygwin Ruby by now.
>> I'll let
>> John Lam speak for the status of IronRuby, but for now it looks like
>> jRuby is a few months ahead of it.
>
> Well, jRuby is quite a bit ahead of where we are right now; we've
> got our work cut out for us. But that said, our goal is to make
> IronRuby the Ruby of choice on the Windows platform ... and for the
> OS X browser platform as well via our cross-platform CoreCLR
> implementation that ships in Silverlight.
>
> -John
>
>
>
Does that mean there will be any books / tutorials on using IronRuby
+ Silverlight coming soon? (hint hint nudge nudge)

Curt Hibbs

10/5/2007 1:34:00 AM

0

On 10/4/07, Matthew Rudy <matthewrudyjacobs@gmail.com> wrote:
> M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
>
> > However ... specific to Ruby, now that Curt Hibbs has found it difficult
> > to find the time to donate to the One-Click Installer
>
> Oh gosh.
> What does making the one-click-installer actually involve?
> I've never tried building ruby from source.

Actually, building Ruby itself is pretty easy. The problems are
usually with the extensions that are bundled with the On-Click
Installer.

Also, the One-Click Installer is not being abandoned. I'm just giving
up the reins to someone else who has the available bandwidth to give
it the attention that is needed. I will stay involved as a helper and
advisor.

Curt

John Lam (CLR)

10/5/2007 2:21:00 AM

0

> From: John Joyce [mailto:dangerwillrobinsondanger@gmail.com]
>
> Does that mean there will be any books / tutorials on using IronRuby
> + Silverlight coming soon? (hint hint nudge nudge)

While I would love to write a book on IronRuby, I feel that it's a bit premature to do so right now. What would I write that would add anything of value on the languages side over the many excellent Ruby books on the market today? On the .NET integration side of the house, I think that there may be something to say here around metaprogramming / DSL approaches to writing .NET apps, but it's way too soon to write a book like that without concrete experience.

Someday if I feel that I can't not write a book like that I'll fire up Word and start typing. But I have to ship a compiler first ... :)

-John

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky

10/5/2007 2:51:00 AM

0

Robert Klemme wrote:
> Hm, cygwin is also a convenient crutch: installing and updating is
> pretty easy. No hassle with compiling etc.
>
> Frankly, I had expected a bit more technical detail on deficiencies that
> would discount cygwin's Ruby.

The last time I checked, the Cygwin Ruby was slightly faster than the
One-Click Ruby on the same machine on one benchmark -- my
MatrixBenchmark. However, I'm pretty sure that was back in the Ruby
1.8.5 days -- I haven't messed with *any* Windows Ruby recently, mostly
because booting my laptop into Windows takes forever. :(

> I don't do GUI programming with Ruby and cygwin's Ruby has served me
> well so far. I also did not notice significant performance hits (but
> then again, I didn't really benchmark different Ruby versions - I just
> always found it fast enough). So far I'm more concerned with
> performance on a Sun box where the Ruby install seems to crawl... :-)

By "Ruby install" do you mean the process of installing Ruby?

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky

10/5/2007 2:53:00 AM

0

Matthew Rudy wrote:
> M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
>
>> However ... specific to Ruby, now that Curt Hibbs has found it difficult
>> to find the time to donate to the One-Click Installer
>
> Oh gosh.
> What does making the one-click-installer actually involve?
> I've never tried building ruby from source.

I don't know ... Curt posted his email address here a few days ago along
with the announcement. I think there is another Win32 build of Ruby
besides the One-Click and the Cygwin, but I don't remember where it is.