SonOfLilit
7/16/2007 8:01:00 AM
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Hitler
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Now it cannot get any worse.
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__
The dolphin was to draw everybody's attention.
Listen,
MINASWAN.
You guys don't want a flame-war, right?
I know Joe doesn't (he says that, and he responds very well to helpful
advice that he understands as helpful).
I don't (it was funny in the beginning, and it helped me get to know
someone who I hope to be working with quite a lot (now I know what he
does in life, where he is positioned socially, what he likes, etc')
but then started to piss me off when I saw how much time people put
into it that they could put instead into wonderful opensource projects
that they wrote and I love to use.
Let's end it, OK?
Truce.
.-.
/___ |___|
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More ASCII art to make SURE to draw everyone's attention.
I cannot force this conversation to end (many tried saying "stop
feeding" before me and failed), so I will have to go for something
better:
==============================
From now on, only technical advice
==============================
Guys, limit your posts to technical advice, like code samples, stories
about your own forays into game programming as kids, links to
interesting libraries, frameworks or languages (although I think Joe
is on the right path with learning Logo turtle graphics, then computer
science 101 with logo (the book I gave him goes as far as writing a
BASIC interpreter!), then Ruby (it would be pretty simple to do turtle
graphics with Ruby or to use _why's amazing HacketyHack, but I chose
Logo as the most rewarding way IMHO and there's no reason to suddenly
set him off that path).
Joe, please only reply to what you see as technical advice. If
something seems to insult you, email me privately and I will read it
and see if it's a technical tip that you misunderstood (e.g. the UML
tip) or flames, in which case - just drop it.
That way, the Ruby mailing list will benefit from a great advice
thread on something that interests young programmers very much, and
Joe, you will benefit from advice only instead of wasting your time on
flames, time you could have used to go to the gym, to hang out with
your friends, to sleep (oh sweet sleep :P), to listen to great music
or to... *ehm*... Well, not in this mailing list, I wouldn't think
it's appropriate... "to have fun", yeah.
If anyone was so insulted that he cannot just let it go, understanding
that this flame war started with a silly misunderstanding caused by
there being TOO MANY helpful guys in this list (and seriously, it's a
misunderstanding I myself might have made, when I started
programming).
============
To clarify that:
============
1) Joe asked for advice on how to start programming so that he can
eventually create a game.
2) Someone told him the standard reply: this and that good free book
will teach you how to create simple programs like "Hello, world", and
you can start from there and go into deeper and deeper grounds.
However, be wary that a game like you want takes years of knowledge
and years of coding for a whole team (I wish /I/ were told that when I
started dreaming about creating computer games).
3) Joe said he's at it and thanked the guys who gave him those books,
and then asked for something more visual-oriented. At this time he was
reading Learn to Program and _why's, IIRC, and enjoyed them very much
(both great books, I agree).
4) A few newcomers to the thread repeated the standard reply, AFTER
Joe already followed it.
5) Joe got frustrated at having to do the same thing over and over,
which is how he misread the repetition of the same advice (I also get
pissed at that, like in math class when they give me the same kind of
excersize again and again... I think all hackers are, aren't we?
That's why we program: "programming will never be monotonous, since
every time something is repetitive, we will simply automate it").
6) A flame war ensued of over 200 messages.
7) A few people tried to give helpful useful advice but their voices
were faint in the ruckus.
8) I gave a long piece of helpful advice tailored exactly to Joe's
needs and personality (learn logo, learn actual programming with logo,
always experiment with doing cool stuff, then talk to me again and
I'll give you the next steps).
9) Joe became polite again, thanking me very much ( :) ) again and
again ( :) ) and sending me warm and fuzzy-feeling-creating messages
on how much he enjoys using abstractions ("to" clauses, Logo's
methods) to create cool graphics. Accidentally, he replied to the list
instead of to my private email as I intended (that's why I don't like
ruby-forum, because people don't notice that it's actually a frontend
to a mailing list).
10) People asked him not very politely (remember, flamewar tension) to
take the discussion off list, and flames re-ensued.
11) THIS STOPS NOW. Thank you.
_______ _____ __ _ _______ _______ _ _ _ _______ __ _
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This is me being over repetitive.
Now as I said, let's turn this into a 100% technical advice thread.
Aur