Asp Forum - Re: I need serious help!

seebs

7/15/2007 9:29:00 PM

In message <47ee04ed7a2708c7cc3a72eb14f36cc2@ruby-forum.com>, Joe Wiltrout writes:
>Who you calling a troll?

I think he was calling you a troll.

>Yall were like " Do the Hello World for the
>rest of your life. Then when you are reincarnated as the 356 king of
>Pakistan, you can program it to say 'You suck Hello World'." Well ya
>know what? I found a much funner thing that is so much better than
>Ruby.(in my opinion of course). You guys might like waiting 40 years to
>make something, but I don't.

Hyperbolic language is often considered a sign of trolling. I would have
suggested you stick with simple programs for, you know, a few DAYS, but
actually stick to 'em until you understand what's going on.

Many of us would still be waiting if we were gonna wait 40 years to make
something. I'm not even 40 yet. :)

Good luck with your programming, but if you're not doing Ruby, could you
maybe, you know, ask about it elsewhere? If you decide to do C, there's
comp.lang.c and comp.lang.c.moderated, open for asking questions. I'm sure
there's Logo groups, and there's TONS of Java groups.

See, one of the reasons people are thinking of you as a troll is that you're
posting tons of stuff in a Ruby group that *isn't about Ruby in any way*.
Not very courteous.

-s

31 Answers

Chad Perrin

7/15/2007 9:55:00 PM

On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 06:29:22AM +0900, Peter Seebach wrote:
> In message <47ee04ed7a2708c7cc3a72eb14f36cc2@ruby-forum.com>, Joe Wiltrout writes:
> >Who you calling a troll?
>
> I think he was calling you a troll.
>
> >Yall were like " Do the Hello World for the
> >rest of your life. Then when you are reincarnated as the 356 king of
> >Pakistan, you can program it to say 'You suck Hello World'." Well ya
> >know what? I found a much funner thing that is so much better than
> >Ruby.(in my opinion of course). You guys might like waiting 40 years to
> >make something, but I don't.
>
> Hyperbolic language is often considered a sign of trolling. I would have
> suggested you stick with simple programs for, you know, a few DAYS, but
> actually stick to 'em until you understand what's going on.

More to the point, posting to a list dedicated to a specific subject
about how stupid that subject is, and how much better other subjects are,
is *very* indicative of trolling. That applies here, with comments about
how Ruby isn't any good but Java (of all things) is so much better,
especially for someone new to programming.

>
> Many of us would still be waiting if we were gonna wait 40 years to make
> something. I'm not even 40 yet. :)

I suppose I should stop writing code. My forty years haven't passed yet
either.

>
> Good luck with your programming, but if you're not doing Ruby, could you
> maybe, you know, ask about it elsewhere? If you decide to do C, there's
> comp.lang.c and comp.lang.c.moderated, open for asking questions. I'm sure
> there's Logo groups, and there's TONS of Java groups.

There's at least one for Logo. I was on that list once upon a time. It
didn't really suit my needs, though.

>
> See, one of the reasons people are thinking of you as a troll is that you're
> posting tons of stuff in a Ruby group that *isn't about Ruby in any way*.
> Not very courteous.

--
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
Phillip J. Haack: "Productivity is not about speed. It's about velocity.
You can be fast, but if you're going in the wrong direction, you're not
helping anyone."

Joe Wiltrout

7/15/2007 9:57:00 PM

unknown wrote:
> In message <47ee04ed7a2708c7cc3a72eb14f36cc2@ruby-forum.com>, Joe
> Wiltrout writes:
>>Who you calling a troll?
>
> I think he was calling you a troll.
>
>>Yall were like " Do the Hello World for the
>>rest of your life. Then when you are reincarnated as the 356 king of
>>Pakistan, you can program it to say 'You suck Hello World'." Well ya
>>know what? I found a much funner thing that is so much better than
>>Ruby.(in my opinion of course). You guys might like waiting 40 years to
>>make something, but I don't.
>
> Hyperbolic language is often considered a sign of trolling. I would
> have
> suggested you stick with simple programs for, you know, a few DAYS, but
> actually stick to 'em until you understand what's going on.
>
> Many of us would still be waiting if we were gonna wait 40 years to make
> something. I'm not even 40 yet. :)
>
> Good luck with your programming, but if you're not doing Ruby, could you
> maybe, you know, ask about it elsewhere? If you decide to do C, there's
> comp.lang.c and comp.lang.c.moderated, open for asking questions. I'm
> sure
> there's Logo groups, and there's TONS of Java groups.
>
> See, one of the reasons people are thinking of you as a troll is that
> you're
> posting tons of stuff in a Ruby group that *isn't about Ruby in any
> way*.
> Not very courteous.
>
> -s

Ya know what? It originally was about Ruby. But then I changed my mind,
and decided to try Java, which was ok. Then I tried UCB Logo and it
rocks. And wtf does hyperbolic mean? Because whatever it does, it
probably doesn't have anything to do with weird monsters hiding under
bridges. If I was a troll, I would be green, or blue, or some other
weird color. And I assure you, I AM WHITE! Well, slightly tanned. And I
am not demanding you pay me to cross a bridge. Besides, the Religion
conversation had nothing to do with Ruby, that went on for over 100
posts.

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Craig Johnson

7/15/2007 10:23:00 PM

And I think with this gem of wisdom and understanding
we should all wave joe a fond farewell and wish him
well on the Logo list....

bye joe.
you go girl...

-----Original Message-----
From: list-bounce@example.com [mailto:list-bounce@example.com] On Behalf Of
Joe Wiltrout
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 3:57 PM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: I need serious help!

unknown wrote:
> In message <47ee04ed7a2708c7cc3a72eb14f36cc2@ruby-forum.com>, Joe
> Wiltrout writes:
>>Who you calling a troll?
>
> I think he was calling you a troll.
>
>>Yall were like " Do the Hello World for the
>>rest of your life. Then when you are reincarnated as the 356 king of
>>Pakistan, you can program it to say 'You suck Hello World'." Well ya
>>know what? I found a much funner thing that is so much better than
>>Ruby.(in my opinion of course). You guys might like waiting 40 years to
>>make something, but I don't.
>
> Hyperbolic language is often considered a sign of trolling. I would
> have
> suggested you stick with simple programs for, you know, a few DAYS, but
> actually stick to 'em until you understand what's going on.
>
> Many of us would still be waiting if we were gonna wait 40 years to make
> something. I'm not even 40 yet. :)
>
> Good luck with your programming, but if you're not doing Ruby, could you
> maybe, you know, ask about it elsewhere? If you decide to do C, there's
> comp.lang.c and comp.lang.c.moderated, open for asking questions. I'm
> sure
> there's Logo groups, and there's TONS of Java groups.
>
> See, one of the reasons people are thinking of you as a troll is that
> you're
> posting tons of stuff in a Ruby group that *isn't about Ruby in any
> way*.
> Not very courteous.
>
> -s

Ya know what? It originally was about Ruby. But then I changed my mind,
and decided to try Java, which was ok. Then I tried UCB Logo and it
rocks. And wtf does hyperbolic mean? Because whatever it does, it
probably doesn't have anything to do with weird monsters hiding under
bridges. If I was a troll, I would be green, or blue, or some other
weird color. And I assure you, I AM WHITE! Well, slightly tanned. And I
am not demanding you pay me to cross a bridge. Besides, the Religion
conversation had nothing to do with Ruby, that went on for over 100
posts.

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Chad Perrin

7/15/2007 10:35:00 PM

On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 06:56:48AM +0900, Joe Wiltrout wrote:
>
> Ya know what? It originally was about Ruby. But then I changed my mind,
> and decided to try Java, which was ok. Then I tried UCB Logo and it
> rocks. And wtf does hyperbolic mean? Because whatever it does, it
> probably doesn't have anything to do with weird monsters hiding under
> bridges. If I was a troll, I would be green, or blue, or some other
> weird color. And I assure you, I AM WHITE! Well, slightly tanned. And I
> am not demanding you pay me to cross a bridge. Besides, the Religion
> conversation had nothing to do with Ruby, that went on for over 100
> posts.

About hyperbole:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki...

About trolls:
http://wiki.ursin...

--
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
Phillip J. Haack: "Productivity is not about speed. It's about velocity.
You can be fast, but if you're going in the wrong direction, you're not
helping anyone."

Joe Wiltrout

7/15/2007 11:41:00 PM

Chad Perrin wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2007 at 06:29:22AM +0900, Peter Seebach wrote:
>> >make something, but I don't.
>>
>> Hyperbolic language is often considered a sign of trolling. I would have
>> suggested you stick with simple programs for, you know, a few DAYS, but
>> actually stick to 'em until you understand what's going on.
>
> More to the point, posting to a list dedicated to a specific subject
> about how stupid that subject is, and how much better other subjects
> are,
> is *very* indicative of trolling. That applies here, with comments
> about
> how Ruby isn't any good but Java (of all things) is so much better,
> especially for someone new to programming.
>
>
>>
>> Many of us would still be waiting if we were gonna wait 40 years to make
>> something. I'm not even 40 yet. :)
>
> I suppose I should stop writing code. My forty years haven't passed yet
> either.
>
>

According to your 'trolling' stuff, it is basicly flame bait. And what I
posted, which may look like flame bait to yall, only originally asked
for a bit of help. But then I told you guys I wanted to know how to
start making the actual game, rather than just how to start programming.
And yall are like 'NO! YOU HAVE TO DO THE HELLO WORLD 250000 TIMES
BEFORE YOU LEARN TO PROGRAM!'(not hyperbole, i did the math) And then I
tried to tell you this multiple times. But yall started getting all like
'YOUR A BAD STUDENT!' and 'YOU REFUSE TO LEARN! YOU WANT TO CLIMB
EVEREST BEFORE YOU CAN WALK!' etc. But I'm still all like 'I want to
know how to start the game making, not how to begin programming all this
basic crap' and thats when I started getting pissed. So now I'm sitting
here, being my normal, arguement starting self, unintetionally this
time. In the religion thread I enjoyed arguement for the sake of
arguement. but then all this hatred from you guys flowed over there too.
Its like whenever I post, you guys are ravens, and then here comes a
tiger. Tiger kills innocent post, tiger eats part, ravens fly in and eat
the rest. No matter where it is. Even if its only mildly related.

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Joe Wiltrout

7/15/2007 11:45:00 PM

>> Many of us would still be waiting if we were gonna wait 40 years to make
>> something. I'm not even 40 yet. :)
>
> I suppose I should stop writing code. My forty years haven't passed yet
> either.

Hate to break it to you, but that *was* exageration. Yall said varying
answers from 5-6 to 10 years. I have friends who learned to program from
scratch in 6 months flat. Making games on the Gamebryo Engine and C++,
all that good stuff. If yall don't know what the Gamebryo Engine is,
smoke some of the stuff ur giving out. 1.) Google it! 2.) Wiki it. 3.)
Ask me and await my unhelpful response. 4.) Ask your 'busy' people and
friends. 5.) Go write Gamebryo Engine on the whiteboard 256650 times.
Then you will know what it is.

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Stefan Rusterholz

7/16/2007 12:03:00 AM

Joe Wiltrout wrote:
> Hate to break it to you, but that *was* exageration. Yall said varying
> answers from 5-6 to 10 years. I have friends who learned to program from
> scratch in 6 months flat. Making games on the Gamebryo Engine and C++,
> all that good stuff. If yall don't know what the Gamebryo Engine is,
> smoke some of the stuff ur giving out. 1.) Google it! 2.) Wiki it. 3.)
> Ask me and await my unhelpful response. 4.) Ask your 'busy' people and
> friends. 5.) Go write Gamebryo Engine on the whiteboard 256650 times.
> Then you will know what it is.

You indeed need serious help.
But not for coding, for your social skills.
You just singlehandedly managed to turn about 20 people who were willing
to help you against you. Quite an achievement. I hope you have more luck
(or maybe just manners/patience?) in the java/logo communities.

Regards
Stefan

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Joe Wiltrout

7/16/2007 12:07:00 AM

Stefan Rusterholz wrote:
> Joe Wiltrout wrote:
>> Hate to break it to you, but that *was* exageration. Yall said varying
>> answers from 5-6 to 10 years. I have friends who learned to program from
>> scratch in 6 months flat. Making games on the Gamebryo Engine and C++,
>> all that good stuff. If yall don't know what the Gamebryo Engine is,
>> smoke some of the stuff ur giving out. 1.) Google it! 2.) Wiki it. 3.)
>> Ask me and await my unhelpful response. 4.) Ask your 'busy' people and
>> friends. 5.) Go write Gamebryo Engine on the whiteboard 256650 times.
>> Then you will know what it is.
>
> You indeed need serious help.
> But not for coding, for your social skills.
> You just singlehandedly managed to turn about 20 people who were willing
> to help you against you. Quite an achievement. I hope you have more luck
> (or maybe just manners/patience?) in the java/logo communities.
>
> Regards
> Stefan

Ahh. The sour sound of stupid people. The people who responded (with the
exception of Aur, who suggested the Logo language to me) did not listen.
I asked for help on how to start making a very simple game. Not advice
on how to start programming. And, unlike most of these programmers, I
only have programming as something I want to do for fun. I know most of
you are getting paid to program or w/e, but I'm not. I really just want
to have fun. And puts('hello world!') over and over again is not fun. I
decided to screw Why's guide, and I just read the comics and sidebars
unrelated to programming. Would have been a good book if he left out the
programming.

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Travis D Warlick Jr

7/16/2007 12:15:00 AM

Joe Wiltrout wrote:
>>> Many of us would still be waiting if we were gonna wait 40 years to make
>>> something. I'm not even 40 yet. :)
>> I suppose I should stop writing code. My forty years haven't passed yet
>> either.
>
> Hate to break it to you, but that *was* exageration. Yall said varying
> answers from 5-6 to 10 years. I have friends who learned to program from
> scratch in 6 months flat. Making games on the Gamebryo Engine and C++,
> all that good stuff.

One thing that is lacking here is the fact that programming/coding is
only (or at least *should* only) be about 10-20% of the total time you
spend on any project. The rest should be planning. Coding is the easy
part. Coming up with the proper use cases, Object structures, flow
charts, etc is the hard part. This is the part that takes literally a
decade or so of experience to learn. (Don't get me wrong, I don't have
this experience, I just see see the people with the experience every day)

In my Principles of Programming Languages class we crash-coursed about a
dozen languages of all types, and after that I've learned to pick up new
languages very quickly. But that doesn't mean, by any stretch of the
imagination, that I could write good, well written software in any of
them. I can get by in all of them, but I'm only fluent in a handful.

--
Travis Warlick

"Programming in Java is like dealing with your mom --
it's kind, forgiving, and gently chastising.
Programming in C++ is like dealing with a disgruntled
girlfriend -- it's cold, unforgiving, and doesn't tell
you what you've done wrong."

Craig Johnson

7/16/2007 12:17:00 AM

Let's recap a moment :)

Joe wants to build interesting games, he wants to program them.

Matthew's example with aa, bb as location names was beyond Joe...
he is concerned he's stuck with those names...

JOE THAT'S WHY YOU NEED TO STUDY SO YOU DON'T ASK THINGS LIKE THAT--YOU'D
KNOW ALREADY

Joe doesn't know what hyperbole is---and what's worse attempts to defend
that he is right based on some complex mathematics of how many times he
could
write Hello world...

JOE THE POINT WAS NOT TO DO THE SAME STUPID THING MANY TIMES BUT TO EXPLORE
MANY DIFFERENT BASICS SO YOU UNDERSTAND..

Joe can't make yahoo work---so he's stumped (yea, like I'm sure it's Yahoo
that is having a brain fart--not our indigent ignoramous)

AND YES JOE YOU WERE BEING CALLED A TROLL

AND JOE--YOU WERE THE SWINE, they cast the pearls...
and Joe, learn to spell--Alliance....

So---Joe--you are way beyond pointless at this point.
I wish you well with LOGO (Trying to explain how you making shapes in Logo
is so orthogonal to what you say you want to do would be pointless at this
point in your understanding of the world and what you have set yourself for
a task, so I won't bother)

GO READ
GO STUDY
Come back when you are wiser in the ways of programming, games, and social
skills.

Begone.

-----Original Message-----
From: list-bounce@example.com [mailto:list-bounce@example.com] On Behalf Of
Joe Wiltrout
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 6:07 PM
To: ruby-talk ML
Subject: Re: I need serious help!

Stefan Rusterholz wrote:
> Joe Wiltrout wrote:
>> Hate to break it to you, but that *was* exageration. Yall said varying
>> answers from 5-6 to 10 years. I have friends who learned to program from
>> scratch in 6 months flat. Making games on the Gamebryo Engine and C++,
>> all that good stuff. If yall don't know what the Gamebryo Engine is,
>> smoke some of the stuff ur giving out. 1.) Google it! 2.) Wiki it. 3.)
>> Ask me and await my unhelpful response. 4.) Ask your 'busy' people and
>> friends. 5.) Go write Gamebryo Engine on the whiteboard 256650 times.
>> Then you will know what it is.
>
> You indeed need serious help.
> But not for coding, for your social skills.
> You just singlehandedly managed to turn about 20 people who were willing
> to help you against you. Quite an achievement. I hope you have more luck
> (or maybe just manners/patience?) in the java/logo communities.
>
> Regards
> Stefan

Ahh. The sour sound of stupid people. The people who responded (with the
exception of Aur, who suggested the Logo language to me) did not listen.
I asked for help on how to start making a very simple game. Not advice
on how to start programming. And, unlike most of these programmers, I
only have programming as something I want to do for fun. I know most of
you are getting paid to program or w/e, but I'm not. I really just want
to have fun. And puts('hello world!') over and over again is not fun. I
decided to screw Why's guide, and I just read the comics and sidebars
unrelated to programming. Would have been a good book if he left out the
programming.

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

comp.lang.ruby

Re: I need serious help!

seebs

Chad Perrin

Joe Wiltrout

Craig Johnson

Chad Perrin

Joe Wiltrout

Joe Wiltrout

Stefan Rusterholz

Joe Wiltrout

Travis D Warlick Jr

Craig Johnson

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