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Re: I need serious help!

Skt

7/13/2007 3:23:00 AM

Dont try to tackle more than one at a time (my problem) thats for sure.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Joe Wiltrout" <wiltroutja@hotmail.com>
To: "ruby-talk ML" <ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org>
Sent: 7/12/2007 11:15 PM
Subject: Re: I need serious help!

unknown wrote:
> In message <3086e6b698191ec82127967a5cb62076@ruby-forum.com>, Joe
> Wiltrout writes:
>>I sorta have no money to use on books and the like. I was hoping I could
>>avoid buying anything by consulting the greater population of Ruby
>>programmers. Maybe get someone to post a link to a good website that
>>dumbs the tutorials down enough for me to understand. And who knows?
>>Maybe I will get good enough that I will be able to go over to C++ and
>>not be this stupid. But I have heard that text-based games are easier to
>>make than games with moving graphics, so I might start off with a Sky
>>Pirate text-based game instead. It all depends whats easiest for a
>>beginner.
>
> If you wanna write text adventures, my recommendation would be Inform 6.
> (I don't like 7 as much.) It's a domain-specific language, but gets a
> lot of advantages from it; on the other hand, it is probably by far the
> quirkiest language I've ever used.
>
> Ruby's a nice generic language for learning things. You can find
> Pine's learning to program online, although I couldn't swear that it's
> word-for-word identical to the printed book.
>
> Depending on what kind of "no money" is involved, if it's possible for
> you
> to save up a few bucks here and there, it's not that hard to get a good
> reference or something, and it is VERY useful. (You might consider the
> PDF version of the PickAxe, which is cheaper than paper.)
>
> -s


And would this 'Inform 6' be harder than Ruby? Because I don't even get
Ruby very well. And what's this 'Text Adventure' type thing? If you mean
text-based game, then I'll check it out. And say I was going to make
some sort of 2-d but still good graphic game, would it be possible in
Ruby, or would I have to use C++ or Java or something else? And could
you post a link to this Pines Learning to program? Because if it is as
helpful as you imply it to be, I would very much like to see it. And
define Quirky. I need to know what you mean before I go and confuse
myself on another coding language.


--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....
38 Answers

Joe Wiltrout

7/13/2007 3:41:00 AM

0

Skt wrote:
> Dont try to tackle more than one at a time (my problem) thats for sure.

Great idea. My first problem is I need to know if coding games is
possible in Ruby. According to Why's, atleast Text Based Games are
possible. Problem solved. Next problem, I need to learn Ruby. Now im
gunna read thru some of Why's.

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Chad Perrin

7/13/2007 6:45:00 AM

0

On Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 12:40:54PM +0900, Joe Wiltrout wrote:
> Skt wrote:
> > Dont try to tackle more than one at a time (my problem) thats for sure.
>
> Great idea. My first problem is I need to know if coding games is
> possible in Ruby. According to Why's, atleast Text Based Games are
> possible. Problem solved. Next problem, I need to learn Ruby. Now im
> gunna read thru some of Why's.

You can create just about any piece of software you like with Ruby. Ruby
is better suited for some things than others, however. For instance,
writing an operating system in Ruby might be a bit challenging
(especially since I'm not sure how practical it is to embed a Ruby
interpreter in your bootloader).

So . . . yes, you absolutely can write games in Ruby. I'm not a game
programmer myself, however, so it's a little outside my range of
expertise.

--
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
Patrick J. LoPresti: "Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1)
Generates a syslog message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk
quota by 100K; and 3) RUNS ED!!!!!!"

Joe Wiltrout

7/13/2007 5:53:00 PM

0

Chad Perrin wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 12:40:54PM +0900, Joe Wiltrout wrote:
>> Skt wrote:
>> > Dont try to tackle more than one at a time (my problem) thats for sure.
>>
>> Great idea. My first problem is I need to know if coding games is
>> possible in Ruby. According to Why's, atleast Text Based Games are
>> possible. Problem solved. Next problem, I need to learn Ruby. Now im
>> gunna read thru some of Why's.
>
> You can create just about any piece of software you like with Ruby.
> Ruby
> is better suited for some things than others, however. For instance,
> writing an operating system in Ruby might be a bit challenging
> (especially since I'm not sure how practical it is to embed a Ruby
> interpreter in your bootloader).
>
> So . . . yes, you absolutely can write games in Ruby. I'm not a game
> programmer myself, however, so it's a little outside my range of
> expertise.

What do you do with Ruby? I'v heard that programming better graphic
games like WoW would be hellishly hard. To my friend Matt, this stuff
seems to come naturally. To me, not so. I read 8 chapters of Why's and
took the in-browser tutorial of Ruby, and most of what I learned
involves making ("Damn those syntax errors!") go backwards. With ("Damn
those syntax errors!").reverse. And most of the other stuff just floated
around like jelly in space.


--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Ben Bleything

7/13/2007 8:10:00 PM

0

On Sat, Jul 14, 2007, Joe Wiltrout wrote:
> What do you do with Ruby? I'v heard that programming better graphic
> games like WoW would be hellishly hard. To my friend Matt, this stuff
> seems to come naturally. To me, not so. I read 8 chapters of Why's and
> took the in-browser tutorial of Ruby, and most of what I learned
> involves making ("Damn those syntax errors!") go backwards. With ("Damn
> those syntax errors!").reverse. And most of the other stuff just floated
> around like jelly in space.

If your ambition is to create a game like WoW, then you're barking up
the wrong tree. It's possible in Ruby, sure... but you're not going to
like it.

WoW embeds a language called Lua... it's what is used to write mods.
However, it's not a powerful enough language for the actual game to be
written in.

Having a game that was scriptable in Ruby would be outstanding, and
certainly possible now... but I think it's going to be a long time
before there's a successful game that's written in a langauge that's
higher level than C/C++.

Ben

Chad Perrin

7/14/2007 5:13:00 AM

0

On Sat, Jul 14, 2007 at 02:53:08AM +0900, Joe Wiltrout wrote:
> Chad Perrin wrote:
> > On Fri, Jul 13, 2007 at 12:40:54PM +0900, Joe Wiltrout wrote:
> >> Skt wrote:
> >> > Dont try to tackle more than one at a time (my problem) thats for sure.
> >>
> >> Great idea. My first problem is I need to know if coding games is
> >> possible in Ruby. According to Why's, atleast Text Based Games are
> >> possible. Problem solved. Next problem, I need to learn Ruby. Now im
> >> gunna read thru some of Why's.
> >
> > You can create just about any piece of software you like with Ruby.
> > Ruby
> > is better suited for some things than others, however. For instance,
> > writing an operating system in Ruby might be a bit challenging
> > (especially since I'm not sure how practical it is to embed a Ruby
> > interpreter in your bootloader).
> >
> > So . . . yes, you absolutely can write games in Ruby. I'm not a game
> > programmer myself, however, so it's a little outside my range of
> > expertise.
>
> What do you do with Ruby? I'v heard that programming better graphic
> games like WoW would be hellishly hard. To my friend Matt, this stuff
> seems to come naturally. To me, not so. I read 8 chapters of Why's and
> took the in-browser tutorial of Ruby, and most of what I learned
> involves making ("Damn those syntax errors!") go backwards. With ("Damn
> those syntax errors!").reverse. And most of the other stuff just floated
> around like jelly in space.

Me, personally? Glorified shell scripting, data munging, and web
development, mostly. I'm thinking about hacking together some minimal
GUI configuration tools using something like the Glade library. The
occasional "stupid programmer trick" for fun is also amongst the things I
do. I'm probably forgetting three or four more things I do with Ruby,
but at the moment the sysadmin scripts and web development work is taking
up more of my programming time than anything else.

Writing something like WoW from scratch would indeed be a herculean task.
There are some libraries for various languages that eliminate a lot of
the more complex work, but that requires a fair bit of research to choose
your libraries well and learn their APIs.

--
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
Patrick J. LoPresti: "Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1)
Generates a syslog message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk
quota by 100K; and 3) RUNS ED!!!!!!"

Stephen Cox

7/14/2007 7:20:00 PM

0

Joe Wiltrout wrote:
> I'v heard that programming better graphic
> games like WoW would be..


You're kidding right? WoW is written in C++ (Objective C for Mac which
is C++). Lua (another scripting language) is embedded and is used for
moding by Blizzard and the community. Games have to be fast and work
closely with hardware (like graphic cards). They are witten in the
lowest language you can hire. Right now, that's c/c++. Though be fun to
see WoW written in Assembler. But good luck finding programmers.

Can you write games in Ruby? Of course. But would it make sense? No.
Well mabe text-based games. Or games that wouldn't require 3D graphics.

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Chad Perrin

7/14/2007 8:39:00 PM

0

On Sun, Jul 15, 2007 at 04:19:41AM +0900, Stephen Cox wrote:
> Joe Wiltrout wrote:
> > I'v heard that programming better graphic
> > games like WoW would be..
>
>
> You're kidding right? WoW is written in C++ (Objective C for Mac which
> is C++). Lua (another scripting language) is embedded and is used for
> moding by Blizzard and the community. Games have to be fast and work
> closely with hardware (like graphic cards). They are witten in the
> lowest language you can hire. Right now, that's c/c++. Though be fun to
> see WoW written in Assembler. But good luck finding programmers.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Objective C for Mac which is C++".
Objective C and C++ are two entirely separate languages. Both are (in
theory at least) object oriented extensions of C, but they take very
different approaches to it with substantially different ideas of how to
accomplish that object orientation. ObjC is also an actual proper
superset of C, whereas C++ is not, strictly speaking.

In fact, Objective C's object model might be said to have more in common
with Ruby's than with C++'s.

If you didn't mean that ObjC is C++ for the Mac, then I apologize for
misunderstanding.

--
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
Ben Franklin: "As we enjoy great Advantages from the Inventions of others
we should be glad of an Opportunity to serve others by any Invention of
ours, and this we should do freely and generously."

Stephen Cox

7/14/2007 10:19:00 PM

0

Chad Perrin wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 15, 2007 at 04:19:41AM +0900, Stephen Cox wrote:
>> see WoW written in Assembler. But good luck finding programmers.
> I'm not sure what you mean by "Objective C for Mac which is C++".
> Objective C and C++ are two entirely separate languages. Both are (in
> theory at least) object oriented extensions of C...

And that's what I meant. Bad placement of words on my part.

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Chad Perrin

7/14/2007 11:01:00 PM

0

On Sun, Jul 15, 2007 at 07:19:13AM +0900, Stephen Cox wrote:
> Chad Perrin wrote:
> > On Sun, Jul 15, 2007 at 04:19:41AM +0900, Stephen Cox wrote:
> >> see WoW written in Assembler. But good luck finding programmers.
> > I'm not sure what you mean by "Objective C for Mac which is C++".
> > Objective C and C++ are two entirely separate languages. Both are (in
> > theory at least) object oriented extensions of C...
>
> And that's what I meant. Bad placement of words on my part.

Cool. It's always nice to share blame for a misunderstanding.

--
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
Larry Wall: "A script is what you give the actors. A program is what you
give the audience."

John Joyce

7/15/2007 5:09:00 AM

0


On Jul 14, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Chad Perrin wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 15, 2007 at 04:19:41AM +0900, Stephen Cox wrote:
>> Joe Wiltrout wrote:
>>> I'v heard that programming better graphic
>>> games like WoW would be..
>>
>>
>> You're kidding right? WoW is written in C++ (Objective C for Mac
>> which
>> is C++). Lua (another scripting language) is embedded and is used for
>> moding by Blizzard and the community. Games have to be fast and work
>> closely with hardware (like graphic cards). They are witten in the
>> lowest language you can hire. Right now, that's c/c++. Though be
>> fun to
>> see WoW written in Assembler. But good luck finding programmers.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by "Objective C for Mac which is C++".
> Objective C and C++ are two entirely separate languages. Both are (in
> theory at least) object oriented extensions of C, but they take very
> different approaches to it with substantially different ideas of
> how to
> accomplish that object orientation. ObjC is also an actual proper
> superset of C, whereas C++ is not, strictly speaking.
>
> In fact, Objective C's object model might be said to have more in
> common
> with Ruby's than with C++'s.
>
> If you didn't mean that ObjC is C++ for the Mac, then I apologize for
> misunderstanding.
>
> --
> CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
> Ben Franklin: "As we enjoy great Advantages from the Inventions of
> others
> we should be glad of an Opportunity to serve others by any
> Invention of
> ours, and this we should do freely and generously."
>
Objective C does have some similarity to Ruby, but that's because
both inherited similar object ideas from SmallTalk.
But Obj-C is still a strict superset of C. There is also Obj-C++
which is not as clearly a superset of C++ (some C++ doesn't work in
Obj-C++)

That said, Obj-C is about to undergo its biggest changes since it was
created, Objective-C 2.0 is coming with the new OS X in the Fall. It
is going to be garbage collected by default, which should make the
writing of code much less troublesome. And it may make it more Ruby-
like, but it is still a strongly typed language, even though it
allows you to do things with objects similar to Ruby, by checking at
run-time if an object responds to some method call.