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[OT] Religion (was: god 0.1.0 released

Gregory Brown

7/10/2007 2:43:00 PM

On 7/10/07, Todd Burch <promos@burchwoodusa.com> wrote:
> Florian Frank wrote:
>
> > Why? At least now the name refers to *something*.
>
> I've never seen a "name" that didn't refer to something. Perhaps you
> meant "implies" something. And yes, it implies a sense of arrogance on
> Tom's part.
>
> And your comment, Benj, about the Gaming industry already doing it - so
> it must be "ok"... and your initial thoughts on objections for the use
> of the name, and then signing as "mostly agnostic"... You sir - have
> given me the best laugh of the day! Your first thoughts must have come
> from your non-"mostly agnostic" side, and by the definition of agnostic,
> you are uncertain anyway. So, your post is a trip, (a riot, it's
> hilarious), anyway you look at it! And yes, in this case, it's
> perfectly relevant.
>
> Perhaps its my age (44), which to some might suggest a certain level of
> maturity and/or discretion, but I would have spent a bit more mental
> time to come up with a name, like I said before, that was more
> appropriate, or perhaps, OK, I'll quit beating around the bush on my
> real feelings - less inappropriate.
>
> But, being a candidate for an old fuddy-duddy, I could be looking at
> this all wrong too. With God (the real one) being taken out of schools,
> and His commandments being taken out of our courthouses, and in all the
> other ways society has found to remove or otherwise pidgeon-hole God out
> of our lives, perhaps this reference, however infinitesimally minute in
> the scheme of things, will raise someone's curiosity enough to do some
> exploration for themselves on the matter.

Okay, I have to be honest. What about the non-Judaic practitioners
in the US? Frankly, I'm glad that "His" commandments are no longer in
courthouses in a country where free religious exercise is supposed to
be practiced.

As far as schools, same things go there. I don't think the state has
a place in picking the spiritual views for students, that seems to
really push the envelope if you ask me.

It seems like you used the name of this library which really is just
clever and appropriate as a soap stand for your particular religious
beliefs, and it seems pretty far out of the scope of discussion here.
We've had religious discussions here in the past, and I think they
can be quite interesting, but let's at least break the thread at this
point so those looking for technical content don't find themselves
disappointed.

-greg

160 Answers

Trans

7/10/2007 3:21:00 PM

0



On Jul 10, 10:42 am, "Gregory Brown" <gregory.t.br...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On 7/10/07, Todd Burch <pro...@burchwoodusa.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Florian Frank wrote:
>
> > > Why? At least now the name refers to *something*.
>
> > I've never seen a "name" that didn't refer to something. Perhaps you
> > meant "implies" something. And yes, it implies a sense of arrogance on
> > Tom's part.
>
> > And your comment, Benj, about the Gaming industry already doing it - so
> > it must be "ok"... and your initial thoughts on objections for the use
> > of the name, and then signing as "mostly agnostic"... You sir - have
> > given me the best laugh of the day! Your first thoughts must have come
> > from your non-"mostly agnostic" side, and by the definition of agnostic,
> > you are uncertain anyway. So, your post is a trip, (a riot, it's
> > hilarious), anyway you look at it! And yes, in this case, it's
> > perfectly relevant.
>
> > Perhaps its my age (44), which to some might suggest a certain level of
> > maturity and/or discretion, but I would have spent a bit more mental
> > time to come up with a name, like I said before, that was more
> > appropriate, or perhaps, OK, I'll quit beating around the bush on my
> > real feelings - less inappropriate.
>
> > But, being a candidate for an old fuddy-duddy, I could be looking at
> > this all wrong too. With God (the real one) being taken out of schools,
> > and His commandments being taken out of our courthouses, and in all the
> > other ways society has found to remove or otherwise pidgeon-hole God out
> > of our lives, perhaps this reference, however infinitesimally minute in
> > the scheme of things, will raise someone's curiosity enough to do some
> > exploration for themselves on the matter.
>
> Okay, I have to be honest. What about the non-Judaic practitioners
> in the US? Frankly, I'm glad that "His" commandments are no longer in
> courthouses in a country where free religious exercise is supposed to
> be practiced.
>
> As far as schools, same things go there. I don't think the state has
> a place in picking the spiritual views for students, that seems to
> really push the envelope if you ask me.
>
> It seems like you used the name of this library which really is just
> clever and appropriate as a soap stand for your particular religious
> beliefs, and it seems pretty far out of the scope of discussion here.
> We've had religious discussions here in the past, and I think they
> can be quite interesting, but let's at least break the thread at this
> point so those looking for technical content don't find themselves
> disappointed.

You're right, good idea to split this thread....

On the topic, I don't see it as a religious thing in-itself, merely a
matter of general sensibilities. For instance, I would likewise anyone
not to name a project a curse word or racial slur, despite how well
they might correspond to the projects functionality. Sure, "God" is
not a "bad" word, but it's just as emotionally heavy. In the end, you
could use any such name, if you really wanted, but you'd probably be
doing yourself a disservice b/c some people simply won't approach your
project b/c of it.

T.


James Gray

7/10/2007 3:24:00 PM

0

On Jul 10, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Trans wrote:

> Sure, "God" is
> not a "bad" word, but it's just as emotionally heavy. In the end, you
> could use any such name, if you really wanted, but you'd probably be
> doing yourself a disservice b/c some people simply won't approach your
> project b/c of it.

It seems to be drumming up business to me.

James Edward Gray II

Gregory Brown

7/10/2007 3:25:00 PM

0

On 7/10/07, Trans <transfire@gmail.com> wrote:

> You're right, good idea to split this thread....
>
> On the topic, I don't see it as a religious thing in-itself, merely a
> matter of general sensibilities. For instance, I would likewise anyone
> not to name a project a curse word or racial slur, despite how well
> they might correspond to the projects functionality. Sure, "God" is
> not a "bad" word, but it's just as emotionally heavy. In the end, you
> could use any such name, if you really wanted, but you'd probably be
> doing yourself a disservice b/c some people simply won't approach your
> project b/c of it.
> > T.

That's the reasonable argument against the name. My concern is that
many folks in the thread assumed "God == Christianity" and that is
extremely offensive to me.

Lyle Johnson

7/10/2007 3:30:00 PM

0


On Jul 10, 2007, at 10:23 AM, James Edward Gray II wrote:

> On Jul 10, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Trans wrote:
>
>> Sure, "God" is
>> not a "bad" word, but it's just as emotionally heavy. In the end, you
>> could use any such name, if you really wanted, but you'd probably be
>> doing yourself a disservice b/c some people simply won't approach
>> your
>> project b/c of it.
>
> It seems to be drumming up business to me.

Only if you believe there's no such thing as bad publicity.

Trans

7/10/2007 3:30:00 PM

0



On Jul 10, 11:23 am, James Edward Gray II <j...@grayproductions.net>
wrote:
> On Jul 10, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Trans wrote:
>
> > Sure, "God" is
> > not a "bad" word, but it's just as emotionally heavy. In the end, you
> > could use any such name, if you really wanted, but you'd probably be
> > doing yourself a disservice b/c some people simply won't approach your
> > project b/c of it.
>
> It seems to be drumming up business to me.

Well, perhaps. Sadly the adage "any publicity is good publicity" does
seem to rule the day. Probably explains why "Dick and Bush" run our
country ;)

T.


James Gray

7/10/2007 3:34:00 PM

0

On Jul 10, 2007, at 10:29 AM, Lyle Johnson wrote:

>
> On Jul 10, 2007, at 10:23 AM, James Edward Gray II wrote:
>
>> On Jul 10, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Trans wrote:
>>
>>> Sure, "God" is
>>> not a "bad" word, but it's just as emotionally heavy. In the end,
>>> you
>>> could use any such name, if you really wanted, but you'd probably be
>>> doing yourself a disservice b/c some people simply won't approach
>>> your
>>> project b/c of it.
>>
>> It seems to be drumming up business to me.
>
> Only if you believe there's no such thing as bad publicity.

See the Grand Theft Auto games.

James Edward Gray II


Lionel Bouton

7/10/2007 4:23:00 PM

0

Trans wrote:
>
> Well, perhaps. Sadly the adage "any publicity is good publicity" does
> seem to rule the day. Probably explains why "Dick and Bush" run our
> country ;)
>
>

They rule our beloved Japan too?!?

Sorry, couldn't resist :-) Seems several of us have to let some steam
go, myself included. I'll go out put fresh air in my lungs instead of
polluting this list any more...

Peace,

Lionel, ... from France by the way.

Todd Benson

7/10/2007 4:28:00 PM

0

On 7/10/07, James Edward Gray II <james@grayproductions.net> wrote:
> On Jul 10, 2007, at 10:29 AM, Lyle Johnson wrote:
>
> >
> > On Jul 10, 2007, at 10:23 AM, James Edward Gray II wrote:
> >
> >> On Jul 10, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Trans wrote:
> >>
> >>> Sure, "God" is
> >>> not a "bad" word, but it's just as emotionally heavy. In the end,
> >>> you
> >>> could use any such name, if you really wanted, but you'd probably be
> >>> doing yourself a disservice b/c some people simply won't approach
> >>> your
> >>> project b/c of it.
> >>
> >> It seems to be drumming up business to me.
> >
> > Only if you believe there's no such thing as bad publicity.
>
> See the Grand Theft Auto games.

No doubt. I agree the publicity works for a popularity contest. One
could argue that such a thing might attract some brilliant
contributors, even; or, as the case may be, shoddy ones.

The namespace (set of all useful names) of shared libraries/apps/gems
is a limited resource. Some names carry more weight than others, as
evidenced by Mr. Burch's and others' replies, and so, unintentionally
become commodities. I'd like to think we're all smart enough to say
"a word is just a word," but that just isn't the case. The word "god"
is especially weird because it has an exceptional amount of baggage
surrounding it.

I think it would be prudent and polite to use weird and heavy names as
objects/variables/etc. inside of an application or library, and not as
the name of a library.

But I know that will never happen. How could it? First one to lay
claim to a name gets it, right? I keep thinking of the pour lost
souls typing in http://w... to find solace because some
guy(s)/gal(s) homesteaded that territory.

Todd

Todd Burch

7/10/2007 4:33:00 PM

0

Gregory Brown wrote:
>
> Okay, I have to be honest. What about the non-Judaic practitioners
> in the US? Frankly, I'm glad that "His" commandments are no longer in
> courthouses in a country where free religious exercise is supposed to
> be practiced.
>

Ok, I think I understand. The Judeo-Christian group has had their
articles of religious expression removed from public display, and you
are basking in that. Good for you. Free religous exercise does not
mean "free only on the condition that it does not offend some vocal
minority". It means free!

> As far as schools, same things go there. I don't think the state has
> a place in picking the spiritual views for students, that seems to
> really push the envelope if you ask me.
>

I don't think the state is doing that here in the US. As a matter of
fact, they are doing the opposite. They are squelching religous
expression, because Group "ABC" might offend Group "DEF".

> It seems like you used the name of this library which really is just
> clever and appropriate as a soap stand for your particular religious
> beliefs, and it seems pretty far out of the scope of discussion here.

I don't agree the name is clever or appropriate.

Now, time for me to be perfectly honest. This is the first time in my
life I have ever taken a stand for my beliefs in a public forum. Call
me a slow starter. I typically steer away from these discussions like
the plague. However, I wanted to make a point that Tom could have
picked a better name. I think I've made that point now.

Todd Burch

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

khaines

7/10/2007 4:52:00 PM

0