Asp Forum - Re: ruby vs perl6

Adrian Howard

6/1/2007 8:57:00 AM

On 1 Jun 2007, at 08:55, Jim Zhang wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The reason to send this mail is that I am still wondering why I
> should study
> and use Ruby.

Because Ruby is here and working now :-)

Because it's a nice language with some nice frameworks?

Because learning new languages is always good?

Because out-of-the-box OOP code becomes _so_ much nicer?

Because you'll encounter stuff that will make you a better Perl
developer?

> I used perl for 5 years and recently I try to study and use
> Ruby... I can't
> wait perl6 to relase.

Me neither. Perl 6 looks fun - especially having the grammar as a
first class type. Now that has possibilities for deep fun.

I'm also still hoping Parrot will get some traction. Having used a
system with multiple languages compiling down to the same VM in the
eighties I know it can lead to some darn funky stuff.

> sb. says Ruby is an alternative for perl, but how's when compared with
> perl6? Ruby's vision vs Perl6's version?

I'd say they're quite different. Perl 6 is Perl with the dials turned
up to 11. Perl's TMTOWTDI is even more apparent - with the swiss army
chainsaw picking up more from functional languages, AOP, etc.

Ruby on the other hand does its best to be a small, elegant OOP
language. Which is a darn nice thing.

Cheers,

Adrian

7 Answers

Chad Perrin

6/1/2007 9:15:00 AM

On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 05:56:56PM +0900, Adrian Howard wrote:
>
> I'd say they're quite different. Perl 6 is Perl with the dials turned
> up to 11. Perl's TMTOWTDI is even more apparent - with the swiss army
> chainsaw picking up more from functional languages, AOP, etc.
>
> Ruby on the other hand does its best to be a small, elegant OOP
> language. Which is a darn nice thing.

Alas, I don't know quite enough about Perl 6 to be able to make a
credible comparison, but yours sounds believable, so I'll go with that.

In my mind, and based on what I know of it, the big win for Perl 6 will
be the fact that it actually does OOP well. Don't misunderstand me:
Perl is one of my favorite languages. I just happen be willing to call
a dog what it is when necessary, and Perl's OOP characteristics leave
something to be desired (as of 5.x). Judging by the sample code I've
seen and the descriptions I've read, however, Perl 6 OOP looks like it's
going to be a really interesting, well-designed bag of tricks, and I
can't wait to learn it.

That won't stop me from using Ruby, though, any more than the fact I'm
using Ruby has stopped me from using Perl 5.x. In fact, I've decided
to work on priority queue management scripts in Perl. Meanwhile, the
signature at the end of this email was chosen randomly by a script I
wrote in Ruby.

Why limit yourself to one language?

--
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
W. Somerset Maugham: "The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for
wit."

Adrian Howard

6/1/2007 10:31:00 AM

On 1 Jun 2007, at 10:14, Chad Perrin wrote:
[snip]
> Alas, I don't know quite enough about Perl 6 to be able to make a
> credible comparison, but yours sounds believable, so I'll go with
> that.
[snip]

I said something vaguely similar in my "Perl Eye for the Ruby Guy"
talk at YAPC::Eu last year and Larry didn't jump down my throat (not
that he would coz he's a nice person :-) so I think it's vaguely
sane. Not that I've had the time to keep up with the latest Perl 6
changes.

> In my mind, and based on what I know of it, the big win for Perl 6
> will
> be the fact that it actually does OOP well. Don't misunderstand me:
> Perl is one of my favorite languages. I just happen be willing to
> call
> a dog what it is when necessary, and Perl's OOP characteristics leave
> something to be desired (as of 5.x). Judging by the sample code I've
> seen and the descriptions I've read, however, Perl 6 OOP looks like
> it's
> going to be a really interesting, well-designed bag of tricks, and I
> can't wait to learn it.

Yeah - the role/trait stuff does look nice. My poor brain can't copy
with the Synopsis docs at the moment though. I'm waiting for somebody
to write something a little more pedagogical.

> That won't stop me from using Ruby, though, any more than the fact I'm
> using Ruby has stopped me from using Perl 5.x. In fact, I've decided
> to work on priority queue management scripts in Perl. Meanwhile, the
> signature at the end of this email was chosen randomly by a script I
> wrote in Ruby.
>
> Why limit yourself to one language?

Indeed.

Unless it's Lisp :-)

Adrian

Chad Perrin

6/1/2007 10:46:00 AM

On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 07:31:21PM +0900, Adrian Howard wrote:
> On 1 Jun 2007, at 10:14, Chad Perrin wrote:
> [snip]
> >Alas, I don't know quite enough about Perl 6 to be able to make a
> >credible comparison, but yours sounds believable, so I'll go with
> >that.
> [snip]
>
> I said something vaguely similar in my "Perl Eye for the Ruby Guy"
> talk at YAPC::Eu last year and Larry didn't jump down my throat (not
> that he would coz he's a nice person :-) so I think it's vaguely
> sane. Not that I've had the time to keep up with the latest Perl 6
> changes.

Good to know! Thanks.

>
> Yeah - the role/trait stuff does look nice. My poor brain can't copy
> with the Synopsis docs at the moment though. I'm waiting for somebody
> to write something a little more pedagogical.

It looks more than just nice, to me -- it looks downright yummy. I love
learning new, innovative ways to do things.

> >
> >Why limit yourself to one language?
>
> Indeed.
>
> Unless it's Lisp :-)

There are those who might claim that, to the extent they're worth
learning, they're *all* Lisp. I'm not one of them, but I do see where
they get that idea.

--
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
McCloctnick the Lucid: "The first rule of magic is simple. Don't waste your
time waving your hands and hopping when a rock or a club will do."

Robert Dober

6/1/2007 11:49:00 AM

On 6/1/07, Chad Perrin <perrin@apotheon.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 05:56:56PM +0900, Adrian Howard wrote:
> >
> > I'd say they're quite different. Perl 6 is Perl with the dials turned
> > up to 11. Perl's TMTOWTDI is even more apparent - with the swiss army
> > chainsaw picking up more from functional languages, AOP, etc.
> >
> > Ruby on the other hand does its best to be a small, elegant OOP
> > language. Which is a darn nice thing.
>
> Alas, I don't know quite enough about Perl 6 to be able to make a
> credible comparison, but yours sounds believable, so I'll go with that.
>
> In my mind, and based on what I know of it, the big win for Perl 6 will
> be the fact that it actually does OOP well. Don't misunderstand me:
> Perl is one of my favorite languages. I just happen be willing to call
> a dog what it is when necessary, and Perl's OOP characteristics leave
> something to be desired (as of 5.x). Judging by the sample code I've
> seen and the descriptions I've read, however, Perl 6 OOP looks like it's
> going to be a really interesting, well-designed bag of tricks, and I
> can't wait to learn it.
>
> That won't stop me from using Ruby, though, any more than the fact I'm
> using Ruby has stopped me from using Perl 5.x. In fact, I've decided
> to work on priority queue management scripts in Perl. Meanwhile, the
> signature at the end of this email was chosen randomly by a script I
> wrote in Ruby.
>
> Why limit yourself to one language?
>
> --
> CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
> W. Somerset Maugham: "The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for
> wit."
So your quoting program picked that quote, that's AI!!!!
>
>

--
You see things; and you say Why?
But I dream things that never were; and I say Why not?
-- George Bernard Shaw

vasudevram

6/1/2007 4:40:00 PM

>Why limit yourself to one language?
>Chad Perrin

>It's not a "winner-take-all" thing; you can learn more than one
language :-)
> David Black

Love those replies.

Why indeed. Another way of looking at it might be:

"Winners do take all" - that is, the best from all choices available,
as per their
needs and what they deem appropriate - and fun :)

Vasudev Ram
www.dancingbison.com

Chad Perrin

6/2/2007 12:22:00 AM

On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 08:49:01PM +0900, Robert Dober wrote:
> On 6/1/07, Chad Perrin <perrin@apotheon.com> wrote:
> >
> >That won't stop me from using Ruby, though, any more than the fact I'm
> >using Ruby has stopped me from using Perl 5.x. In fact, I've decided
> >to work on priority queue management scripts in Perl. Meanwhile, the
> >signature at the end of this email was chosen randomly by a script I
> >wrote in Ruby.
> >
> >Why limit yourself to one language?
> >
> >--
> >CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
> >W. Somerset Maugham: "The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for
> >wit."
> So your quoting program picked that quote, that's AI!!!!

My simple little Ruby script does a surprisingly good job of picking out
signatures that are appropriate to the subject matter of my emails. I
used something called signify when I was using Debian as my primary OS,
and decided it was time to write my own since I figured it would take as
much time and effort to learn the quirks of a different random signature
program as to write a new one when I started migrating my life from
Debian to FreeBSD. I might have thought the apparently fortuitous
appropriateness of my signature script's choices might just be some kind
of psychological effect if it wasn't for the fact that signify produced
far less serendipitous choices on average, from the same list of sigs,
than my Ruby script does.

I doubt it's AI, but it sure does seem difficult to explain by way of
mere randomness.

--
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
McCloctnick the Lucid: "The first rule of magic is simple. Don't waste your
time waving your hands and hopping when a rock or a club will do."

Robert Dober

6/2/2007 6:56:00 AM

On 6/2/07, Chad Perrin <perrin@apotheon.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 08:49:01PM +0900, Robert Dober wrote:
> > On 6/1/07, Chad Perrin <perrin@apotheon.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >That won't stop me from using Ruby, though, any more than the fact I'm
> > >using Ruby has stopped me from using Perl 5.x. In fact, I've decided
> > >to work on priority queue management scripts in Perl. Meanwhile, the
> > >signature at the end of this email was chosen randomly by a script I
> > >wrote in Ruby.
> > >
> > >Why limit yourself to one language?
> > >
> > >--
> > >CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
> > >W. Somerset Maugham: "The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for
> > >wit."
> > So your quoting program picked that quote, that's AI!!!!
>
> My simple little Ruby script does a surprisingly good job of picking out
> signatures that are appropriate to the subject matter of my emails. I
> used something called signify when I was using Debian as my primary OS,
> and decided it was time to write my own since I figured it would take as
> much time and effort to learn the quirks of a different random signature
> program as to write a new one when I started migrating my life from
> Debian to FreeBSD. I might have thought the apparently fortuitous
> appropriateness of my signature script's choices might just be some kind
> of psychological effect if it wasn't for the fact that signify produced
> far less serendipitous choices on average, from the same list of sigs,
> than my Ruby script does.
Thanks for the background, but...
>
> I doubt it's AI, but it sure does seem difficult to explain by way of
> mere randomness.
so do I, it was just funny that a quote was saying something bad about quoiting,
I thought that noteworthy :)

Cheers
Robert
>
> --
> CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
> McCloctnick the Lucid: "The first rule of magic is simple. Don't waste your
> time waving your hands and hopping when a rock or a club will do."
That might apply to programming in general and this weeks quiz too.
>
>

--
You see things; and you say Why?
But I dream things that never were; and I say Why not?
-- George Bernard Shaw

comp.lang.ruby

Re: ruby vs perl6

Adrian Howard

Chad Perrin

Adrian Howard

Chad Perrin

Robert Dober

vasudevram

Chad Perrin

Robert Dober

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