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A few beginners questions

wannaberor

4/6/2007 3:29:00 PM

Guys,

What is http://start.cl... developed in?

Also, what path do you suggest for me to start learning AJAX and Ruby?

Do you suggest I independently learn JavaScript, XML and CSS and hit
AJAX and then Ruby? I'm already familiar with some ruby.

Any sources, info, tips.. asbolutely anything at all would be very
welcome.

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....
14 Answers

Reid Thompson

4/6/2007 3:37:00 PM

0

wannaberor wrote:
> Guys,
>
> What is http://start.cl... developed in?
>
>
http://start.cl.../support/feedback might be the best place to
ask this question

Robert Dober

4/6/2007 3:45:00 PM

0

On 4/6/07, wannaberor <amldcc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Guys,
>
> What is http://start.cl... developed in?
This has been answered nicely ;)
>
> Also, what path do you suggest for me to start learning AJAX and Ruby?
Depends a lot on your background, are you interested in Ruby only or
in Rails too as the context of your question might suggest, do you
have programming experience, you really should search the list for
that kind of answers.
>
> Do you suggest I independently learn JavaScript, XML and CSS and hit
> AJAX and then Ruby? I'm already familiar with some ruby.

For what my opionin is worth learn Ruby first, it is a great language
to start with.
>
> Any sources, info, tips.. asbolutely anything at all would be very
> welcome.
Really just search the list if you have any problems with that, ask again...

>
> --
> Posted via http://www.ruby-....
>
>
Cheers
Robert

--
You see things; and you say Why?
But I dream things that never were; and I say Why not?
-- George Bernard Shaw

John Joyce

4/6/2007 5:26:00 PM

0

It depends on what you want to do.
But here goes,
1. You can learn Ruby and at the same time learn XHTML + CSS
2. Before concerning too much about AJAX you'll need to learn some
JavaScript and DOM scripting as well, but while learning that, you
need an understanding of how web sites really work: how pages are
requested, served and then handled by user-agents (browsers).
Don't worry, none of it is all that difficult, it's just a lot to
learn at once!
3. After you feel comfortable with XHTML and CSS, and perhaps a
little bit about XML, take a look at AJAX and if you haven't, XML too.
AJAX itself is not complicated. The fancier things are not simple,
though. But at this point, the skills you learn in Ruby and in XHTML
+ CSS (actually XML!) and a bit of DOM scripting (JavaScript) things
start to converge with AJAX (and things like REST, SOAP)
But if you go to all this effort, you should go ahead and learn some
SQL of some sort too, because most of this stuff ends up going into
or out of a database. So add MySQL or PostgreSQL or SQLite to the mix!

The big hint though: to really make use of AJAX you need to
understand the DOM and that each browser has a slightly different
implementation (well this is true of so many things!) AJAX is
basically simple, but there is a lot to learn to get there. The
question is, is the reward worth the effort? In the end you may find
that it is just a really difficult way to make a Flash page... (now I
duck for cover...)
On Apr 7, 2007, at 12:28 AM, wannaberor wrote:

> Guys,
>
> What is http://start.cl... developed in?
>
> Also, what path do you suggest for me to start learning AJAX and Ruby?
>
> Do you suggest I independently learn JavaScript, XML and CSS and hit
> AJAX and then Ruby? I'm already familiar with some ruby.
>
> Any sources, info, tips.. asbolutely anything at all would be very
> welcome.
>
> --
> Posted via http://www.ruby-....
>

wannaberor

4/6/2007 7:34:00 PM

0

John, thanks for your words.

Reckon this is possible in about 2/3 months with loads of daily
dedication?

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Phillip Gawlowski

4/6/2007 9:13:00 PM

0

Peter Slider wrote:
> John, thanks for your words.
>
> Reckon this is possible in about 2/3 months with loads of daily
> dedication?
>

The basics: Most likely, depending on your learning abilities.
Mastery: Not.

But don't be discouraged by this: Once you know the basics, you can do a
lot already. Mastery, though, takes longer. It usually means that you
know all your areas of expertise in and out, but doesn't describe your
abilities to do the job at hand. And comes only with practice and
actually writing code in this area.

You probably should at databases (MySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle[0]) to your
"things to learn" list, too.

[0] you can get a free as in beer variant of Oracle 10g from oracle's
website, called Oracle XE:
http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/database/xe/...

--
Phillip "CynicalRyan" Gawlowski
http://cynicalryan....

Rule of Open-Source Programming #7:

Release early, release often. Clean compilation is optional.

John Joyce

4/7/2007 12:34:00 AM

0

2/3 months you can learn a lot, but I have to agree, mastery it won't
be, young Jedi!
Just have the realistic expectations that there will be parts that
bog down or that frustrate or confuse.
You can cover a lot of material in 3 months, but only so much in one
day. As you learn this stuff you need to use it to make stuff, that's
where the real learning and retention of knowledge happens. Start
with some web sites. Spend money on books too. Take a break when you
get burned out. XHTML + CSS and Ruby and maybe a database at the same
time. That's probably more than enough to learn for 3 months.
Databases have a slower learning curve sometimes, because you can't
skip the theory part and it is always troublesome if your design is
flawed (many of them will be).

Here's a list of books I'd recommend:
Bulletproof Web Design
CSS Mastery
Professional CSS
(none of these covers IE7 because it is too recent, but these are
actually very good)

Learning MySQL
MySQL phrasebook

Beginning Ruby from Novice to Professional
Ruby Cookbook
Programming Ruby (the pickaxe)

Teach Yourself Javascript in 24 hours, 4th ed. (they never mean that,
think of it as 24 chapters)
Javascript phrasebook

If you're planning to use AJAX and Ruby for web sites, you might as
well consider learning Rails as well, but after you've tackled some
of the other stuff.
On Apr 7, 2007, at 6:12 AM, Phillip Gawlowski wrote:

> Peter Slider wrote:
>> John, thanks for your words.
>> Reckon this is possible in about 2/3 months with loads of daily
>> dedication?
>
> The basics: Most likely, depending on your learning abilities.
> Mastery: Not.
>
> But don't be discouraged by this: Once you know the basics, you can
> do a lot already. Mastery, though, takes longer. It usually means
> that you know all your areas of expertise in and out, but doesn't
> describe your abilities to do the job at hand. And comes only with
> practice and actually writing code in this area.
>
> You probably should at databases (MySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle[0]) to
> your "things to learn" list, too.
>
> [0] you can get a free as in beer variant of Oracle 10g from
> oracle's website, called Oracle XE:
> http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/database/xe/...
>
> --
> Phillip "CynicalRyan" Gawlowski
> http://cynicalryan....
>
> Rule of Open-Source Programming #7:
>
> Release early, release often. Clean compilation is optional.
>

Scott Taylor

4/7/2007 3:38:00 AM

0


Sounds like Rails would be good for getting you started on some of
this stuff. With rails you can avoid SQL and Javascript directly,
since you can use the scriptaculous AJAX library in ruby (with rails).

But as has been noted several times, you probably won't be good at
this stuff in 2-3 months. You probably won't even be good at even
*one* of these things in 2-3 months. Experience is the best
trainer. So just start building something in rails after you have
gone through a short tutorial.

Scott



On Apr 6, 2007, at 11:28 AM, wannaberor wrote:

> Guys,
>
> What is http://start.cl... developed in?
>
> Also, what path do you suggest for me to start learning AJAX and Ruby?
>
> Do you suggest I independently learn JavaScript, XML and CSS and hit
> AJAX and then Ruby? I'm already familiar with some ruby.
>
> Any sources, info, tips.. asbolutely anything at all would be very
> welcome.
>
> --
> Posted via http://www.ruby-....
>

John Joyce

4/7/2007 8:27:00 AM

0

While Rails does let you skip most of the JavaScript and SQL work,
you can't do it forever.
To really understand what you're doing you should learn a little bit
of it. You don't have to be an expert at it to use it, but you would
be doing yourself a disservice by avoiding those topics. SQL more so
than JS. JS is pretty easy if you've done any C / PHP / Perl type of
programming.
On Apr 7, 2007, at 12:37 PM, Scott Taylor wrote:

>
> Sounds like Rails would be good for getting you started on some of
> this stuff. With rails you can avoid SQL and Javascript directly,
> since you can use the scriptaculous AJAX library in ruby (with rails).
>
> But as has been noted several times, you probably won't be good at
> this stuff in 2-3 months. You probably won't even be good at even
> *one* of these things in 2-3 months. Experience is the best
> trainer. So just start building something in rails after you have
> gone through a short tutorial.
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> On Apr 6, 2007, at 11:28 AM, wannaberor wrote:
>
>> Guys,
>>
>> What is http://start.cl... developed in?
>>
>> Also, what path do you suggest for me to start learning AJAX and
>> Ruby?
>>
>> Do you suggest I independently learn JavaScript, XML and CSS and hit
>> AJAX and then Ruby? I'm already familiar with some ruby.
>>
>> Any sources, info, tips.. asbolutely anything at all would be very
>> welcome.
>>
>> --
>> Posted via http://www.ruby-....
>>
>
>

Phillip Gawlowski

4/7/2007 8:39:00 AM

0

John Joyce wrote:
> While Rails does let you skip most of the JavaScript and SQL work, you
> can't do it forever.
> To really understand what you're doing you should learn a little bit of
> it. You don't have to be an expert at it to use it, but you would be
> doing yourself a disservice by avoiding those topics. SQL more so than
> JS. JS is pretty easy if you've done any C / PHP / Perl type of
> programming.

Well, it takes a bit pressure off one's learning, that's for sure. It's
best to tackle areas of knowledge one at a time. The trick is to find
out which area can come afterwards. And IMHO, while important, SQL and
database management and data modeling theory can take a backseat,
especially given ActiveRecord or DBI.

Of course, this turns around if you are going to work a lot with
databases that go beyond web-applications (which have, comparatively,
rather simple structures).


I agree those, grabbing SQLite[0] and the respective Ruby gem can only
help (no need to wrestle with MySQL or Oracle at this point).

[0] http://www....

--
Phillip "CynicalRyan" Gawlowski
http://cynicalryan....

Rule of Open-Source Programming #34:

Every successful project will eventually spawn a sub-project

Scott Taylor

4/7/2007 8:44:00 AM

0


On Apr 7, 2007, at 4:27 AM, John Joyce wrote:

> While Rails does let you skip most of the JavaScript and SQL work,
> you can't do it forever.
> To really understand what you're doing you should learn a little
> bit of it. You don't have to be an expert at it to use it, but you
> would be doing yourself a disservice by avoiding those topics. SQL
> more so than JS. JS is pretty easy if you've done any C / PHP /
> Perl type of programming.
> On Apr 7, 2007, at 12:37 PM, Scott Taylor wrote:
>

I think "a little bit of it", at least for sql, would be some theory
on normalization of databases and foreign keys. Or put another way,
keep DRY in your databases as well as your code.

Scott



>>
>> Sounds like Rails would be good for getting you started on some of
>> this stuff. With rails you can avoid SQL and Javascript directly,
>> since you can use the scriptaculous AJAX library in ruby (with
>> rails).
>>
>> But as has been noted several times, you probably won't be good at
>> this stuff in 2-3 months. You probably won't even be good at even
>> *one* of these things in 2-3 months. Experience is the best
>> trainer. So just start building something in rails after you have
>> gone through a short tutorial.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 6, 2007, at 11:28 AM, wannaberor wrote:
>>
>>> Guys,
>>>
>>> What is http://start.cl... developed in?
>>>
>>> Also, what path do you suggest for me to start learning AJAX and
>>> Ruby?
>>>
>>> Do you suggest I independently learn JavaScript, XML and CSS and hit
>>> AJAX and then Ruby? I'm already familiar with some ruby.
>>>
>>> Any sources, info, tips.. asbolutely anything at all would be very
>>> welcome.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Posted via http://www.ruby-....
>>>
>>
>>
>
>