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comp.lang.ruby

Socket issue

Marc Soda

1/22/2007 3:54:00 PM

Hey all,

While testing some edge cases in an app I came across a strange socket
issue. If I have a server that dies unexpectedly, and then try to
write to it from an already connected client, it doesn't raise an
exception until the next time I try to write it.

Example:

Server
---------
require 'socket'

include Socket::Constants

sock = Socket.new(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0)
sock.setsockopt(SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR, true)
sockaddr = Socket.pack_sockaddr_in(7000, 'localhost')
sock.bind(sockaddr)
sock.listen(0)

client, client_sockaddr = sock.accept
print "Connected\n"
print ">>> #{client.readline}"
abort



Client
--------
require 'socket'
include Socket::Constants

$sock = Socket.new(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0)
sockaddr = Socket.pack_sockaddr_in(7000, 'localhost')
$sock.connect(sockaddr)

def send_msg
begin
$sock.write("Hello\n")
rescue StandardError => err
p err
end
end

puts "1"
send_msg
sleep 0.5
puts "2"
send_msg # Should error here.
sleep 0.5
puts "3"
send_msg

Any suggestions? I'm running on Linux, BTW.

Thanks,
Marc
8 Answers

Gary Wright

1/22/2007 4:56:00 PM

0


On Jan 22, 2007, at 10:53 AM, Marc Soda wrote:
> Any suggestions? I'm running on Linux, BTW.

What you are seeing is in the nature of TCP.

After the connection succeeds your server shuts down *its* end of
the TCP session (i.e. it tells the client that it won't send any
more data). Since TCP is full duplex, the client-> server part of
the connection is still up and running as far as the client is
concerned.

Your first write stuffs the data in a buffer and returns (with no
error). Shortly thereafter the kernel decides to actually transmit
the data. The server responds with a RESET indicating that it will
no longer accept data on that TCP session. The error is noted by
the kernel and is reported to your client code on the *next* attempt
to write to the socket (which is now in an error state).

There is no one-to-one mapping of a write call on the socket to
data transmission on the wire for TCP due to buffering. This is
why the first write doesn't cause the transmit/detect/report of
the error.

Gary Wright

Marc Soda

1/23/2007 3:59:00 AM

0

On 1/22/07, gwtmp01@mac.com <gwtmp01@mac.com> wrote:
> What you are seeing is in the nature of TCP.
>
> After the connection succeeds your server shuts down *its* end of
> the TCP session (i.e. it tells the client that it won't send any
> more data). Since TCP is full duplex, the client-> server part of
> the connection is still up and running as far as the client is
> concerned.
>
> Your first write stuffs the data in a buffer and returns (with no
> error). Shortly thereafter the kernel decides to actually transmit
> the data. The server responds with a RESET indicating that it will
> no longer accept data on that TCP session. The error is noted by
> the kernel and is reported to your client code on the *next* attempt
> to write to the socket (which is now in an error state).
>
> There is no one-to-one mapping of a write call on the socket to
> data transmission on the wire for TCP due to buffering. This is
> why the first write doesn't cause the transmit/detect/report of
> the error.
>
> Gary Wright
>
>
>
>
>

Gary,

First, thanks for your answer. I agree with you, however, my
understanding was that after the client side kernel flushes it's
buffers from the second send(2) (the first send after the server dies)
the server would send a RST back. If I were to go about other
processing and not even touch the socket again I should still receive
and SIGPIPE. Is this not true?

Thanks for your time.
Marc

Gary Wright

1/23/2007 4:28:00 AM

0


On Jan 22, 2007, at 10:59 PM, Marc Soda wrote:
> First, thanks for your answer. I agree with you, however, my
> understanding was that after the client side kernel flushes it's
> buffers from the second send(2) (the first send after the server dies)
> the server would send a RST back. If I were to go about other
> processing and not even touch the socket again I should still receive
> and SIGPIPE. Is this not true?

The SIGPIPE is sent when you attempt to write to the socket, not when
the kernel receives the RST. So in your example, the timeline looks
like:

client server
------------------------------
listen
connect
accept
abort
<-----------FIN
write
sleep
| 'hello' -------->
| <----------- RST
write: SIGPIPE


That is a pretty lame diagram but I hope it clarifies things.

FYI, this is a behavior of the underlying socket abstraction, not
something particular to Ruby.


Gary Wright

GOP_Decline_and_Fall

7/7/2013 10:32:00 PM

0

On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 17:59:14 -0400, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:

>
>
>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>news:05ait8dj8vdbasjeumomr7v556ctn2d14l@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 03:12:48 -0400, "Scout"
>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>news:6iqht81dtjiup4t2b6fnv2kd9hscm5cfer@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 23:27:27 -0400, "Scout"
>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:2g4ht8llfjnnin18qneqlgh5tvq5rco9a9@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Sat, 06 Jul 2013 12:17:40 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>news:v68ft8tmsssnsibc0jruhhqjtss5pii4ur@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 00:34:18 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>news:huoet8p6a0pp651n2hoqqhv6r6tfo4jkhu@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 16:45:29 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>news:5s7et8t6ehe27bqbkvmoj1m3pp9vvtog9h@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 12:33:31 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:hmuct8tg3cng5tpkbibb37rgqkpg4psrcg@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2013 00:05:44 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:hrgbt8touh02b4pa8givu0kai3g47jcvtg@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 04 Jul 2013 11:53:03 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:l749t818o868dak5dmlbtg1m3dsthkeh3s@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:47:21 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:59f7t8pirjapel29agqgkv9pfu05timuuk@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2013 23:50:18 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:nc37t8pg7h5q1lkuu9btakkibcoodau65f@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 16:36:51 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:83g6t8diit8n8nbn6vd7h2q18kvtborslf@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 12:04:40 -0700, Klaus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Schadenfreude <klausschadenfreude@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 11:48:13 -0600, deep wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It would if Martin felt threatened and harassed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>which he did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you know what Martin was feeling, why are you at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the trial testifying?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dee Dee has already done that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Like it or not, her testimony is uncorroberated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is certainly corroborated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other witnesses and even Zimmerman himself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corroborates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what she
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>heard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the phone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And yet another shred of evidence that supports
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Zimmerman's story.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh Dee Dee heard Trayvon slamming Zimmerman's head into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concrete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and punching his nose 30 times did she?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Use your head for something other than holding your ears
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>apart. What Scout was referring to was exchanges between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>them on the phone. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>think that was while the fight was nearing its end.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing on Dee Dee's phone or anywhere else on this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> planet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports Zimmerman's tall tales of his head smashed into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concrete, or 30 blows to his nose or anything life
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> threatening
>>>>>>>>>>>at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nice dance. I hadn't claimed that they did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am no suggesting you are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scout claims Dee Dee's testimony is a shred of support for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zimmerman's story.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It is, by your own admission.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not his story of a life threatening attack unprovoked that was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> classic example of text book example a SYG defense it wasn't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trayvon was a schoolboy suspended for tagging graffiti not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Willie Horton with a knife.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is not support for his central story he has hung his hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on that he was beaten to a point where he feared for his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I didn't say it did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought you did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Besides one thing that seems to be forgotten in here and in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>talking head commentators is that the use of deadly force in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>self
>>>>>>>>>>>>>defence does NOT require one to think he was going to be killed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>It requires an imminent fear of death OR SERIOUS BODILY HARM at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>the hands of another.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>From 776.012
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>"He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>herself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>felony; or...."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it your claim, then, that I or any of the many others
>>>>>>>>>>>> threatened with gruesome death and torture by Gunner and Gray
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ghost , could simply shoot them dead on sight were they to
>>>>>>>>>>>> visit
>>>>>>>>>>>> Florida to prevent the commission of their threatened forcible
>>>>>>>>>>>> felonies?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>No, there has to be credible evidence that a reasonable person
>>>>>>>>>>>would
>>>>>>>>>>>fear that either one of the would carry out that threat.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Precisely.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And there is no credible evidence that Zimmerman's purported
>>>>>>>>>> belief
>>>>>>>>>> was reasonable.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You mean besides eye witness accounts, physical injuries, and so on?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are no witnesses or injuries or any evidence at all that
>>>>>>>> supports the suggestion he was subjected to an attack that
>>>>>>>> threatened
>>>>>>>> his life.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It isn't necessary that the threat to his life be that apparent to
>>>>>>>you.
>>>>>>>After all, it is his life and well being that was in that perceived
>>>>>>>danger not yours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are begging the question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Using your logic ANYBODY that is in an physical altercation of any
>>>>>> kind, however minor, is justified in shooting their adversary dead.
>>>>>
>>>>>Depends on the specific circumstances.
>>>>>
>>>>>> That is far from reasonable.
>>>>>
>>>>>Your false logic, not surprising your conclusion is also false.
>>>>>
>>>
>>><crickets>
>>>
>>>>>>>What is necessary is that a reasonable person would
>>>>>>>feel that was a possibility.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reasonable people require evidence that Zimmerman's purported
>>>>>> fear of death was reasonable.
>>>>>
>>>>>So you don't require evidence then?
>>>>>
>>>
>>><crickets>
>>
>> You actually expect an answer to such a puerile third grade loaded
>> question?
>
>I will take that as you can't answer even a simple question.

Loaded question from a simpleton you mean.

Holding the view that reasonable people require evidence that
Zimmerman's purported fear of death was reasonable in no way implies
a belief that evidence is not required.

Actually a second grader could see through your"have you stopped
beating your wife?" bullshit".



>
>>>>>> No evidence of any unprovoked attack on Zimmerman has been produced.
>>>>>
>>>>>So how did Zimmerman get in a fight then?
>>>>>
>>>
>>><crickets>
>>
>> As the prosecutor said, only two people know. One is dead and the
>> other a liar.
>
>So only two people know if Zimmerman got into a fight?
>
>What about all the testimony that indicates that Zimmerman and Trayvon were
>fighting?
>
>Are you suggesting the prosecution is denying it's own witnesses' testimony?
>
>
>>>>>>> You stopped being that reasonable person
>>>>>>>some time ago in this thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trayvon was right handed.
>>>>>> No reasonable person can believe that Zimmerman was beaten to the
>>>>>> point of fearing for his life without Trayvon ever using his right
>>>>>> hand.
>>>>>
>>>>>And you can't show that he didn't use his right hand.
>>>>
>>>> There isn't any evidence he ever used his right hand in any suggested
>>>> fight.
>>>
>>>
>>>Which is a long fucking way from your assertion that his right hand was
>>>never used.
>>>
>>>See, what you've just admitted is you don't know whether he used is right
>>>hand or not....so you LIED when you claimed to know he hadn't used it.
>>
>> It's this pesky thing called evidence that's missing.
>
>You mean what the prosecution doesn't have?
>
>> There is evidence in a small abrasion that Trayvon's left hand MIGHT
>> have hit Zimmerman .As for the rest of his body,their is no evidence
>> of any contact with Zimmerman at all.
>
>Except for that pesky eye witness testimony.
>
>That puts them in contract with each other.
>
>So much for your theory that they weren't fighting.
>
>> For all we know Zimmerman could have shot Trayvon from four feet away
>> according to the post mortem evidence.
>
>Sure, except they were seen in direct contact with each other just moments
>before the shot.
>
>
>>>I think from now on, it would save so much time to simply snip at your
>>>first
>>>lie.
>>>
>>>Should greatly reduce how much of your ramblings I have to deal with, or
>>>if
>>>you want me to then you're going to have to work on your honesty.
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>

Scout

7/7/2013 11:10:00 PM

0



"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
news:5iqjt8d197788mnu37ss07jmtkjsskh6aj@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 17:59:14 -0400, "Scout"
> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>news:05ait8dj8vdbasjeumomr7v556ctn2d14l@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 03:12:48 -0400, "Scout"
>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:6iqht81dtjiup4t2b6fnv2kd9hscm5cfer@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 23:27:27 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:2g4ht8llfjnnin18qneqlgh5tvq5rco9a9@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> On Sat, 06 Jul 2013 12:17:40 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>news:v68ft8tmsssnsibc0jruhhqjtss5pii4ur@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 00:34:18 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>news:huoet8p6a0pp651n2hoqqhv6r6tfo4jkhu@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 16:45:29 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>news:5s7et8t6ehe27bqbkvmoj1m3pp9vvtog9h@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 12:33:31 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:hmuct8tg3cng5tpkbibb37rgqkpg4psrcg@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2013 00:05:44 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:hrgbt8touh02b4pa8givu0kai3g47jcvtg@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 04 Jul 2013 11:53:03 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:l749t818o868dak5dmlbtg1m3dsthkeh3s@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:47:21 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:59f7t8pirjapel29agqgkv9pfu05timuuk@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2013 23:50:18 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:nc37t8pg7h5q1lkuu9btakkibcoodau65f@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 16:36:51 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:83g6t8diit8n8nbn6vd7h2q18kvtborslf@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 12:04:40 -0700, Klaus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Schadenfreude <klausschadenfreude@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 11:48:13 -0600, deep wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It would if Martin felt threatened and harassed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>which he did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you know what Martin was feeling, why are you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the trial testifying?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dee Dee has already done that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Like it or not, her testimony is uncorroberated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is certainly corroborated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other witnesses and even Zimmerman himself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corroborates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what she
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>heard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the phone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And yet another shred of evidence that supports
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Zimmerman's story.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh Dee Dee heard Trayvon slamming Zimmerman's head
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concrete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and punching his nose 30 times did she?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Use your head for something other than holding your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ears
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>apart. What Scout was referring to was exchanges
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>them on the phone. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>think that was while the fight was nearing its end.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing on Dee Dee's phone or anywhere else on this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> planet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports Zimmerman's tall tales of his head smashed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concrete, or 30 blows to his nose or anything life
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> threatening
>>>>>>>>>>>>at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nice dance. I hadn't claimed that they did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am no suggesting you are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scout claims Dee Dee's testimony is a shred of support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zimmerman's story.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It is, by your own admission.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not his story of a life threatening attack unprovoked that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> classic example of text book example a SYG defense it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trayvon was a schoolboy suspended for tagging graffiti not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Willie Horton with a knife.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is not support for his central story he has hung his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on that he was beaten to a point where he feared for his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I didn't say it did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought you did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Besides one thing that seems to be forgotten in here and in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>talking head commentators is that the use of deadly force in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>self
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>defence does NOT require one to think he was going to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>killed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It requires an imminent fear of death OR SERIOUS BODILY HARM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the hands of another.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>From 776.012
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>herself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>felony; or...."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it your claim, then, that I or any of the many others
>>>>>>>>>>>>> threatened with gruesome death and torture by Gunner and Gray
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ghost , could simply shoot them dead on sight were they to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> visit
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Florida to prevent the commission of their threatened forcible
>>>>>>>>>>>>> felonies?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>No, there has to be credible evidence that a reasonable person
>>>>>>>>>>>>would
>>>>>>>>>>>>fear that either one of the would carry out that threat.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Precisely.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And there is no credible evidence that Zimmerman's purported
>>>>>>>>>>> belief
>>>>>>>>>>> was reasonable.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>You mean besides eye witness accounts, physical injuries, and so
>>>>>>>>>>on?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are no witnesses or injuries or any evidence at all that
>>>>>>>>> supports the suggestion he was subjected to an attack that
>>>>>>>>> threatened
>>>>>>>>> his life.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It isn't necessary that the threat to his life be that apparent to
>>>>>>>>you.
>>>>>>>>After all, it is his life and well being that was in that perceived
>>>>>>>>danger not yours.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are begging the question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Using your logic ANYBODY that is in an physical altercation of any
>>>>>>> kind, however minor, is justified in shooting their adversary dead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Depends on the specific circumstances.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is far from reasonable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Your false logic, not surprising your conclusion is also false.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>><crickets>
>>>>

<crickets>

>>>>>>>>What is necessary is that a reasonable person would
>>>>>>>>feel that was a possibility.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Reasonable people require evidence that Zimmerman's purported
>>>>>>> fear of death was reasonable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So you don't require evidence then?
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>><crickets>
>>>
>>> You actually expect an answer to such a puerile third grade loaded
>>> question?
>>
>>I will take that as you can't answer even a simple question.
>
> Loaded question from a simpleton you mean.
>
> Holding the view that reasonable people require evidence that
> Zimmerman's purported fear of death was reasonable in no way implies
> a belief that evidence is not required.

Perhaps, but the question is are you a reasonable person who bases their
judgment on the evidence?


> Actually a second grader could see through your"have you stopped
> beating your wife?" bullshit".

Not really, since you've shown you do "beat your wife" in that you seem not
to care about whether the evidence actually shows whether Zimmerman is
guilty or not.

You've already decided he's guilty and you ignore any evidence contrary to
your prejudice.


>>>>>>> No evidence of any unprovoked attack on Zimmerman has been produced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So how did Zimmerman get in a fight then?
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>><crickets>
>>>

<crickets>

>>> As the prosecutor said, only two people know. One is dead and the
>>> other a liar.
>>
>>So only two people know if Zimmerman got into a fight?
>>
>>What about all the testimony that indicates that Zimmerman and Trayvon
>>were
>>fighting?
>>
>>Are you suggesting the prosecution is denying it's own witnesses'
>>testimony?
>>

<crickets>

>>
>>>>>>>> You stopped being that reasonable person
>>>>>>>>some time ago in this thread.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Trayvon was right handed.
>>>>>>> No reasonable person can believe that Zimmerman was beaten to the
>>>>>>> point of fearing for his life without Trayvon ever using his right
>>>>>>> hand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And you can't show that he didn't use his right hand.
>>>>>
>>>>> There isn't any evidence he ever used his right hand in any suggested
>>>>> fight.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Which is a long fucking way from your assertion that his right hand was
>>>>never used.
>>>>
>>>>See, what you've just admitted is you don't know whether he used is
>>>>right
>>>>hand or not....so you LIED when you claimed to know he hadn't used it.
>>>
>>> It's this pesky thing called evidence that's missing.
>>
>>You mean what the prosecution doesn't have?
>>

<crickets>

>>> There is evidence in a small abrasion that Trayvon's left hand MIGHT
>>> have hit Zimmerman .As for the rest of his body,their is no evidence
>>> of any contact with Zimmerman at all.
>>
>>Except for that pesky eye witness testimony.
>>
>>That puts them in contract with each other.
>>
>>So much for your theory that they weren't fighting.
>>

<crickets>

>>> For all we know Zimmerman could have shot Trayvon from four feet away
>>> according to the post mortem evidence.
>>
>>Sure, except they were seen in direct contact with each other just moments
>>before the shot.
>>

<crickets>

>>
>>>>I think from now on, it would save so much time to simply snip at your
>>>>first
>>>>lie.
>>>>
>>>>Should greatly reduce how much of your ramblings I have to deal with, or
>>>>if
>>>>you want me to then you're going to have to work on your honesty.
>>>>
>>>><snip>
>>>>

Wow, look at all the evidence you ignored in your desire to condemn
Zimmerman.

Scout

7/7/2013 11:12:00 PM

0



"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
news:m5qjt81k1ej3t15l257a4nirk9g3725t13@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 17:54:21 -0400, "Scout"
> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>news:ne9it8p59ancrl2a4ntrv8q5vclkmsksmn@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 03:09:23 -0400, "Scout"
>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:k0qht851ij3cf0jrgea5mi0nru4448drem@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 23:29:09 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:uq8ht8hnijtttiq3fjv7a8v3e7v18l2af2@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 17:59:17 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:kbvft81tg60tcuab1echlspegi7nfim20h@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 04:22:18 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>news:5seft851scb4vbtke8b04qhl631hm9pc7c@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 01:11:20 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>news:v68ft8tmsssnsibc0jruhhqjtss5pii4ur@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 00:34:18 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:huoet8p6a0pp651n2hoqqhv6r6tfo4jkhu@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 16:45:29 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:5s7et8t6ehe27bqbkvmoj1m3pp9vvtog9h@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 12:33:31 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:hmuct8tg3cng5tpkbibb37rgqkpg4psrcg@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2013 00:05:44 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:hrgbt8touh02b4pa8givu0kai3g47jcvtg@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 04 Jul 2013 11:53:03 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:l749t818o868dak5dmlbtg1m3dsthkeh3s@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:47:21 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:59f7t8pirjapel29agqgkv9pfu05timuuk@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2013 23:50:18 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:nc37t8pg7h5q1lkuu9btakkibcoodau65f@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 16:36:51 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:83g6t8diit8n8nbn6vd7h2q18kvtborslf@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 12:04:40 -0700, Klaus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Schadenfreude
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <klausschadenfreude@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 11:48:13 -0600, deep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It would if Martin felt threatened and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>harassed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you know what Martin was feeling, why are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>trial testifying?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dee Dee has already done that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Like it or not, her testimony is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>uncorroberated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is certainly corroborated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other witnesses and even Zimmerman himself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corroborates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> she
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>heard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the phone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And yet another shred of evidence that supports
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Zimmerman's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>story.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh Dee Dee heard Trayvon slamming Zimmerman's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> head
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concrete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and punching his nose 30 times did she?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Use your head for something other than holding your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ears
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>apart.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>What Scout was referring to was exchanges between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>phone. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>think that was while the fight was nearing its end.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing on Dee Dee's phone or anywhere else on this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> planet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports Zimmerman's tall tales of his head smashed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concrete, or 30 blows to his nose or anything life
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> threatening
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nice dance. I hadn't claimed that they did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am no suggesting you are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scout claims Dee Dee's testimony is a shred of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zimmerman's story.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It is, by your own admission.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not his story of a life threatening attack unprovoked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> classic example of text book example a SYG defense it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trayvon was a schoolboy suspended for tagging graffiti
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Willie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Horton with a knife.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is not support for his central story he has hung
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that he was beaten to a point where he feared for his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I didn't say it did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought you did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Besides one thing that seems to be forgotten in here and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>talking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>head commentators is that the use of deadly force in self
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>defence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>NOT require one to think he was going to be killed. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>requires
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>imminent fear of death OR SERIOUS BODILY HARM at the hands
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>another.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>From 776.012
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"He or she reasonably believes that such force is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>necessary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>prevent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>another
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>or...."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it your claim, then, that I or any of the many others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> threatened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with gruesome death and torture by Gunner and Gray Ghost ,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply shoot them dead on sight were they to visit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Florida
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prevent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the commission of their threatened forcible felonies?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>No, there has to be credible evidence that a reasonable
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>fear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>that either one of the would carry out that threat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Precisely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And there is no credible evidence that Zimmerman's purported
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> belief
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was reasonable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>You mean besides eye witness accounts, physical injuries, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>on?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are no witnesses or injuries or any evidence at all that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports the suggestion he was subjected to an attack that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> threatened
>>>>>>>>>>>>> his life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> None whatsoever
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>So you think a fight can't be a threat to your life?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>That no one is ever beaten to death?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You should ask George's girlfriends,they know all about that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Home-boy also gave a hood shout-out to the girlfriend he
>>>>>>>>>>> allegedly
>>>>>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>>>>>> away with abusing. He said:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "I'm still free! The ex hoe tried her best but the judge saw
>>>>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>>>>> it!"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>No one is even severely injured?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Like the woman George threw across a room and her ankle you
>>>>>>>>>>> mean?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Seems you have a different idea on these matters than most other
>>>>>>>>>>>>people
>>>>>>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>>>>>>even the law.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The cop he assaulted and battered might clue you in on that too.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "I guess I hurt him"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>So, you admit you were lying and the evidence does support the
>>>>>>>>>>suggestion
>>>>>>>>>>he
>>>>>>>>>>may have faced a serious or deadly attack.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don't be ridiculous.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Yea, it would be rather ridiculous to expect you to openly
>>>>>>>>acknowledge
>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>were lying. The best that can be hoped for is to trick you into an
>>>>>>>>inadvertent admission you were lying like I did above.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The fact is that as unpalatable as you may find it, there is no
>>>>>>> credible evidence that Zimmerman's purported belief was reasonable.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So..
>>>>>
>>>>>>you are stating that the prosecution's own witnesses were not
>>>>>>credible?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ok.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your habit of typing
>>>>>
>>>>> so...
>>>>>
>>>>> Followed by some random unconnected assertion is tedious
>>>>
>>>>No, I'm simply stating that the prosecution's own evidence and testimony
>>>>supported Zimmerman's purported belief as reasonable and you're
>>>>asserting
>>>>that evidence isn't credible.
>>>>
>>>>If so, then the prosecution's case, such as it is, is garbage, since
>>>>apparently it's not credible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Means you've gutted the prosecution's case, but if that's how you want
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>play it.
>>>>>
>>>>> No prosecution witness or any other saw any attack on Zimmerman that
>>>>> made him fear for his life or even a single blow of any altercation.
>>>>
>>>>Apparently at least one witness testified to being an eye witness to
>>>>such
>>>>a
>>>>conflict.
>>>
>>> A portion of a physical altercation where he didn't even see an actual
>>> blow struck and was unsure of who was on top and who was on the
>>> bottom.
>>>
>>>>Now, if you want to tell me that what the prosecution presented isn't
>>>>credible....then neither is their case.
>>>>
>>>>Don't blame me for pointing out the consequences of what you assert.
>>>
>>> GIGO
>>>
>>> If you insist on rewriting others words and putting words in their
>>> mouth don't be surprised if arrive at faulty conclusions.
>>
>><snipped at first lie>
>>
>>When you can discuss what I actually said, then we can talk.
>>
>>Until then I will note that there was testimony and evidence introduced by
>>the prosecution.
>
> None supporting any Life threatening attack on Zimmerman was
> introduced.


So no eyewitness testimony of a fight? No physical evidence on injuries? No
evidence seen by police that a struggle took place in the grass?

Odd, I see to recall certain testimony and evidence that showed such a fight
occurred, and you claimed that a fight occurred wasn't a fact in dispute.

So why are you know disputing it?

GOP_Decline_and_Fall

7/8/2013 12:54:00 AM

0

On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 19:09:44 -0400, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:

>
>
>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>news:5iqjt8d197788mnu37ss07jmtkjsskh6aj@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 17:59:14 -0400, "Scout"
>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>news:05ait8dj8vdbasjeumomr7v556ctn2d14l@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 03:12:48 -0400, "Scout"
>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:6iqht81dtjiup4t2b6fnv2kd9hscm5cfer@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 23:27:27 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:2g4ht8llfjnnin18qneqlgh5tvq5rco9a9@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 06 Jul 2013 12:17:40 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>news:v68ft8tmsssnsibc0jruhhqjtss5pii4ur@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 00:34:18 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>news:huoet8p6a0pp651n2hoqqhv6r6tfo4jkhu@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 16:45:29 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:5s7et8t6ehe27bqbkvmoj1m3pp9vvtog9h@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 12:33:31 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:hmuct8tg3cng5tpkbibb37rgqkpg4psrcg@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2013 00:05:44 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:hrgbt8touh02b4pa8givu0kai3g47jcvtg@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 04 Jul 2013 11:53:03 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:l749t818o868dak5dmlbtg1m3dsthkeh3s@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:47:21 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:59f7t8pirjapel29agqgkv9pfu05timuuk@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2013 23:50:18 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:nc37t8pg7h5q1lkuu9btakkibcoodau65f@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 16:36:51 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:83g6t8diit8n8nbn6vd7h2q18kvtborslf@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 12:04:40 -0700, Klaus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Schadenfreude <klausschadenfreude@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 11:48:13 -0600, deep wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It would if Martin felt threatened and harassed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>which he did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you know what Martin was feeling, why are you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the trial testifying?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dee Dee has already done that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Like it or not, her testimony is uncorroberated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is certainly corroborated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other witnesses and even Zimmerman himself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corroborates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what she
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>heard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the phone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And yet another shred of evidence that supports
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Zimmerman's story.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh Dee Dee heard Trayvon slamming Zimmerman's head
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concrete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and punching his nose 30 times did she?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Use your head for something other than holding your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ears
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>apart. What Scout was referring to was exchanges
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>them on the phone. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>think that was while the fight was nearing its end.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing on Dee Dee's phone or anywhere else on this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> planet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports Zimmerman's tall tales of his head smashed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concrete, or 30 blows to his nose or anything life
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> threatening
>>>>>>>>>>>>>at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nice dance. I hadn't claimed that they did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am no suggesting you are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scout claims Dee Dee's testimony is a shred of support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zimmerman's story.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It is, by your own admission.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not his story of a life threatening attack unprovoked that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> classic example of text book example a SYG defense it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trayvon was a schoolboy suspended for tagging graffiti not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Willie Horton with a knife.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is not support for his central story he has hung his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on that he was beaten to a point where he feared for his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I didn't say it did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought you did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Besides one thing that seems to be forgotten in here and in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>talking head commentators is that the use of deadly force in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>self
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>defence does NOT require one to think he was going to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>killed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It requires an imminent fear of death OR SERIOUS BODILY HARM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the hands of another.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>From 776.012
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>herself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>felony; or...."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it your claim, then, that I or any of the many others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> threatened with gruesome death and torture by Gunner and Gray
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ghost , could simply shoot them dead on sight were they to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Florida to prevent the commission of their threatened forcible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> felonies?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>No, there has to be credible evidence that a reasonable person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>fear that either one of the would carry out that threat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Precisely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And there is no credible evidence that Zimmerman's purported
>>>>>>>>>>>> belief
>>>>>>>>>>>> was reasonable.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>You mean besides eye witness accounts, physical injuries, and so
>>>>>>>>>>>on?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There are no witnesses or injuries or any evidence at all that
>>>>>>>>>> supports the suggestion he was subjected to an attack that
>>>>>>>>>> threatened
>>>>>>>>>> his life.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>It isn't necessary that the threat to his life be that apparent to
>>>>>>>>>you.
>>>>>>>>>After all, it is his life and well being that was in that perceived
>>>>>>>>>danger not yours.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are begging the question.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Using your logic ANYBODY that is in an physical altercation of any
>>>>>>>> kind, however minor, is justified in shooting their adversary dead.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Depends on the specific circumstances.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is far from reasonable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Your false logic, not surprising your conclusion is also false.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>><crickets>
>>>>>
>
><crickets>
>
>>>>>>>>>What is necessary is that a reasonable person would
>>>>>>>>>feel that was a possibility.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Reasonable people require evidence that Zimmerman's purported
>>>>>>>> fear of death was reasonable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So you don't require evidence then?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>><crickets>
>>>>
>>>> You actually expect an answer to such a puerile third grade loaded
>>>> question?
>>>
>>>I will take that as you can't answer even a simple question.
>>
>> Loaded question from a simpleton you mean.
>>
>> Holding the view that reasonable people require evidence that
>> Zimmerman's purported fear of death was reasonable in no way implies
>> a belief that evidence is not required.
>
>Perhaps, but the question is are you a reasonable person who bases their
>judgment on the evidence?

No.

The question is whether,absent significant injury,
it's reasonable to accept a killer's unsupported word that his victim
needed shooting through the heart at point blank range.


>
>> Actually a second grader could see through your"have you stopped
>> beating your wife?" bullshit".
>
>Not really, since you've shown you do "beat your wife" in that you seem not
>to care about whether the evidence actually shows whether Zimmerman is
>guilty or not.
>
>You've already decided he's guilty and you ignore any evidence contrary to
>your prejudice.

He called Trayvon a fucking punk and profiled him as an asshole that
always gets away and chased after him with a loaded weapon, confronted
the boy and shot him through the heart.

IMO that makes him guilty whatever unsupported cock and bull stories
are floated about him being in fear of his life.

As to SYG any such claim was likely to have been as quickly thrown out
as Friday's forlorn motion to acquit was.

You don't get more prejudiced than your touching faith in Zimmerman's
unsupported word which is totally driven by your agenda.
However many in your own camp do not share your touching faith

George Zimmerman's Lawyer, Mark O'Mara, To Speak At Convention For Gun
Rights Group

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/07/george-zimmermans-lawyer-mark-omara_n_17...


Alan Gottlieb, the founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, has
been an outspoken supporter of the Stand Your Ground law. But back in
March, he told Chris Matthews of MSNBC that the law might not apply to
Zimmerman. "He may very well use that to defend himself, but the truth
is in this case, he was the pursuer," Gottliebe said. "He didn't stand
his ground."




>>>>>>>> No evidence of any unprovoked attack on Zimmerman has been produced.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So how did Zimmerman get in a fight then?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>><crickets>
>>>>
>
><crickets>
>
>>>> As the prosecutor said, only two people know. One is dead and the
>>>> other a liar.
>>>
>>>So only two people know if Zimmerman got into a fight?
>>>
>>>What about all the testimony that indicates that Zimmerman and Trayvon
>>>were
>>>fighting?
>>>
>>>Are you suggesting the prosecution is denying it's own witnesses'
>>>testimony?
>>>
>
><crickets>
>
>>>
>>>>>>>>> You stopped being that reasonable person
>>>>>>>>>some time ago in this thread.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Trayvon was right handed.
>>>>>>>> No reasonable person can believe that Zimmerman was beaten to the
>>>>>>>> point of fearing for his life without Trayvon ever using his right
>>>>>>>> hand.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And you can't show that he didn't use his right hand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There isn't any evidence he ever used his right hand in any suggested
>>>>>> fight.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Which is a long fucking way from your assertion that his right hand was
>>>>>never used.
>>>>>
>>>>>See, what you've just admitted is you don't know whether he used is
>>>>>right
>>>>>hand or not....so you LIED when you claimed to know he hadn't used it.
>>>>
>>>> It's this pesky thing called evidence that's missing.
>>>
>>>You mean what the prosecution doesn't have?
>>>
>
><crickets>
>
>>>> There is evidence in a small abrasion that Trayvon's left hand MIGHT
>>>> have hit Zimmerman .As for the rest of his body,their is no evidence
>>>> of any contact with Zimmerman at all.
>>>
>>>Except for that pesky eye witness testimony.
>>>
>>>That puts them in contract with each other.
>>>
>>>So much for your theory that they weren't fighting.
>>>
>
><crickets>
>
>>>> For all we know Zimmerman could have shot Trayvon from four feet away
>>>> according to the post mortem evidence.
>>>
>>>Sure, except they were seen in direct contact with each other just moments
>>>before the shot.
>>>
>
><crickets>
>
>>>
>>>>>I think from now on, it would save so much time to simply snip at your
>>>>>first
>>>>>lie.
>>>>>
>>>>>Should greatly reduce how much of your ramblings I have to deal with, or
>>>>>if
>>>>>you want me to then you're going to have to work on your honesty.
>>>>>
>>>>><snip>
>>>>>
>
>Wow, look at all the evidence you ignored in your desire to condemn
>Zimmerman.
>

Scout

7/8/2013 2:35:00 AM

0



"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
news:r81kt89qgcphflduttq1q7v7q1hmi4subr@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 19:09:44 -0400, "Scout"
> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>news:5iqjt8d197788mnu37ss07jmtkjsskh6aj@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 17:59:14 -0400, "Scout"
>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:05ait8dj8vdbasjeumomr7v556ctn2d14l@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 03:12:48 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:6iqht81dtjiup4t2b6fnv2kd9hscm5cfer@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 23:27:27 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:2g4ht8llfjnnin18qneqlgh5tvq5rco9a9@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 06 Jul 2013 12:17:40 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>news:v68ft8tmsssnsibc0jruhhqjtss5pii4ur@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 6 Jul 2013 00:34:18 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>news:huoet8p6a0pp651n2hoqqhv6r6tfo4jkhu@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 16:45:29 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:5s7et8t6ehe27bqbkvmoj1m3pp9vvtog9h@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 12:33:31 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:hmuct8tg3cng5tpkbibb37rgqkpg4psrcg@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Jul 2013 00:05:44 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:hrgbt8touh02b4pa8givu0kai3g47jcvtg@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 04 Jul 2013 11:53:03 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:l749t818o868dak5dmlbtg1m3dsthkeh3s@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:47:21 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:59f7t8pirjapel29agqgkv9pfu05timuuk@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2013 23:50:18 -0400, "Scout"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"GOP_Decline_and_Fall" <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:nc37t8pg7h5q1lkuu9btakkibcoodau65f@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 16:36:51 -0500, RD Sandman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rdsandman[remove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOP_Decline_and_Fall <Dev@null.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>news:83g6t8diit8n8nbn6vd7h2q18kvtborslf@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 12:04:40 -0700, Klaus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Schadenfreude <klausschadenfreude@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 02 Jul 2013 11:48:13 -0600, deep wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It would if Martin felt threatened and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>harassed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>which he did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>If you know what Martin was feeling, why are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the trial testifying?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dee Dee has already done that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Like it or not, her testimony is uncorroberated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is certainly corroborated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other witnesses and even Zimmerman himself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corroborates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what she
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>heard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the phone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And yet another shred of evidence that supports
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Zimmerman's story.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh Dee Dee heard Trayvon slamming Zimmerman's head
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concrete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and punching his nose 30 times did she?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Use your head for something other than holding your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ears
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>apart. What Scout was referring to was exchanges
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>them on the phone. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>think that was while the fight was nearing its end.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing on Dee Dee's phone or anywhere else on this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> planet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports Zimmerman's tall tales of his head smashed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> concrete, or 30 blows to his nose or anything life
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> threatening
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nice dance. I hadn't claimed that they did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am no suggesting you are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scout claims Dee Dee's testimony is a shred of support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zimmerman's story.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It is, by your own admission.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not his story of a life threatening attack unprovoked that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> classic example of text book example a SYG defense it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trayvon was a schoolboy suspended for tagging graffiti not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Willie Horton with a knife.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is not support for his central story he has hung his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on that he was beaten to a point where he feared for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I didn't say it did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought you did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Besides one thing that seems to be forgotten in here and in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>talking head commentators is that the use of deadly force in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>self
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>defence does NOT require one to think he was going to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>killed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It requires an imminent fear of death OR SERIOUS BODILY HARM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the hands of another.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>From 776.012
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>herself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>forcible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>felony; or...."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it your claim, then, that I or any of the many others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> threatened with gruesome death and torture by Gunner and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gray
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ghost , could simply shoot them dead on sight were they to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Florida to prevent the commission of their threatened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forcible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> felonies?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>No, there has to be credible evidence that a reasonable person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>fear that either one of the would carry out that threat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Precisely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And there is no credible evidence that Zimmerman's purported
>>>>>>>>>>>>> belief
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was reasonable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>You mean besides eye witness accounts, physical injuries, and so
>>>>>>>>>>>>on?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There are no witnesses or injuries or any evidence at all that
>>>>>>>>>>> supports the suggestion he was subjected to an attack that
>>>>>>>>>>> threatened
>>>>>>>>>>> his life.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>It isn't necessary that the threat to his life be that apparent to
>>>>>>>>>>you.
>>>>>>>>>>After all, it is his life and well being that was in that
>>>>>>>>>>perceived
>>>>>>>>>>danger not yours.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are begging the question.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Using your logic ANYBODY that is in an physical altercation of any
>>>>>>>>> kind, however minor, is justified in shooting their adversary
>>>>>>>>> dead.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Depends on the specific circumstances.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is far from reasonable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Your false logic, not surprising your conclusion is also false.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>><crickets>
>>>>>>
>>
>><crickets>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>What is necessary is that a reasonable person would
>>>>>>>>>>feel that was a possibility.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Reasonable people require evidence that Zimmerman's purported
>>>>>>>>> fear of death was reasonable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>So you don't require evidence then?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>><crickets>
>>>>>
>>>>> You actually expect an answer to such a puerile third grade loaded
>>>>> question?
>>>>
>>>>I will take that as you can't answer even a simple question.
>>>
>>> Loaded question from a simpleton you mean.
>>>
>>> Holding the view that reasonable people require evidence that
>>> Zimmerman's purported fear of death was reasonable in no way implies
>>> a belief that evidence is not required.
>>
>>Perhaps, but the question is are you a reasonable person who bases their
>>judgment on the evidence?
>
> No.

Enough said.