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comp.lang.ruby

Problems with Posting to comp.lang.ruby, due to gateway to Ruby-Talk

Ronald Fischer

1/9/2007 8:42:00 AM

Hello

There seems to be a problem how the newsgroupd comp.lang.ruby is
handled. Here a concrete example to demonstrate it:

(1) I have posted a message to comp.lang.ruby via Newsoffice (a web
based
Newsreader, http://www.new...). You can see this posting for
example at

http://groups.g...group/ruby-talk-google/msg/6132dc5ece61114f?dmode=source...

From the header of this posting, one can see that there is a gateway
involved, mapping comp.lang.ruby postings to the mailing list
ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org.

(2) I received a followup to this posting which you can see at

http://groups.g...group/ruby-talk-google/msg/6132dc5ece61114f?dmode=source...

My posting was obviously read by someone subscribed to Ruby-Talk, and
his reply was obviously sent to the mailing list, not to the
comp.lang.ruby gateway. Since I am not subscribed to Ruby-Talk
- actually, I wasn't even aware of the existence of this mailing
list -, I would not have even noticed that I got a followup to my
posting. I found out by accident, when I did a search with Google
Groups (http://groups.g...) and, since GoogleGroups is subscribed
to Ruby-Talk and also recognized that there was a message to my original
post, I found that reply.

(3) I posted a followup to that message using GoogleGroups. That
message was of course directed to the ruby-talk mailing list directly,
not to comp.lang.ruby, since the message I was replying to, (2), was
also to the Mailing List, and Googlegroups can't know from this context
that it should post the reply to comp.lang.ruby.

(4) Then I received a message from the ruby-talk mailing list that I am
not a member of the Ruby-Talk list and hence are not allowed to send
postings there.

The problem seems that though everyone can post to the ruby-talk mailing
list via comp.lang.ruby gateway, only members can post to the mailing
list directly. This has the consequence that a message posted to
comp.lang.ruby can be read by subscribers to ruby-talk AND
comp.lang.ruby,
but followups to such a posting don't necessarily show up in the
comp.lang.ruby usegroup. In other words: The gateway between
comp.lang.ruby and ruby-talk is one way only.

Maybe there is an error how that gateway between comp.lang.ruby and
ruby-talk is configured? How can one find out who is responsible for
operating this gateway?

Ronald


--
Ronald Fischer <ronaldf@eml.cc>
Posted via http://www.new.../
10 Answers

Trans

1/9/2007 11:57:00 AM

0


Ronald Fischer wrote:

> (3) I posted a followup to that message using GoogleGroups. That
> message was of course directed to the ruby-talk mailing list directly,
> not to comp.lang.ruby, since the message I was replying to, (2), was
> also to the Mailing List, and Googlegroups can't know from this context
> that it should post the reply to comp.lang.ruby.
>
> (4) Then I received a message from the ruby-talk mailing list that I am
> not a member of the Ruby-Talk list and hence are not allowed to send
> postings there.

there are two google groups, one is an archive of the newsgroup and the
other an archive the mailing-list called ruby-talk-google. which did
you use? if its the later, it shouldn't let you post unless you
subscribe first (via google groups).

> The problem seems that though everyone can post to the ruby-talk mailing
> list via comp.lang.ruby gateway, only members can post to the mailing
> list directly. This has the consequence that a message posted to
> comp.lang.ruby can be read by subscribers to ruby-talk AND
> comp.lang.ruby,
> but followups to such a posting don't necessarily show up in the
> comp.lang.ruby usegroup. In other words: The gateway between
> comp.lang.ruby and ruby-talk is one way only.
>
> Maybe there is an error how that gateway between comp.lang.ruby and
> ruby-talk is configured? How can one find out who is responsible for
> operating this gateway?

not sure who's running the gateway, but king james II wrote it ;-)

T.

James Gray

1/9/2007 1:37:00 PM

0

On Jan 9, 2007, at 5:57 AM, Trans wrote:

>> How can one find out who is responsible for
>> operating this gateway?
>
> not sure who's running the gateway, but king james II wrote it ;-)

I wrote and maintain the current Gateway.

James Edward Gray II

James Gray

1/9/2007 1:50:00 PM

0

On Jan 9, 2007, at 2:45 AM, Ronald Fischer wrote:

> There seems to be a problem how the newsgroupd comp.lang.ruby is
> handled.

There are, from time to time, problems with messages not moving from
one side of the Gateway to another. These almost always involve
multipart messages.

Just FYI, I explain the scope of the Gateway here:

http://blog.grayproductions.net/articles/2006/12/01/what-is...
talk-gateway

> (1) I have posted a message to comp.lang.ruby via Newsoffice (a web
> based
> Newsreader, http://www.new...). You can see this posting for
> example at
> http://groups.google.com/group/ruby-talk-g...
> 6132dc5ece61114f?dmode=source&hl=de

I've looked into this thread and do not see a problem. The messages
appear to have been gated correctly. Here's a link to the thread on
the Usenet side:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.ruby/brow...
thread/e30bf5b62fb2ded6/56910ec15ff3617d?lnk=gst&q=Net%3A%
3ATelnet&rnum=1#56910ec15ff3617d

Both messages show up there. They also both hit the mailing list:

http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-t...

http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-t...

Unless I am missing something, everything appears to be functioning
correctly.

James Edward Gray II

Ronald Otto Valentin

1/10/2007 8:28:00 AM

0

> there are two google groups, one is an archive of the newsgroup and the
> other an archive the mailing-list called ruby-talk-google. which did
> you use? if its the later, it shouldn't let you post unless you
> subscribe first (via google groups).

The first posting, remember, wasn't done with Google, but with
Newsoffice;
and there I posted just to comp.lang.ruby.

When I posted the reply, I did it with GoogleGroups, but here, Google
didn't
let me choose "comp.lang.ruby". It offered only "reply to the author"
and
"reply to Ruby-Talk".

> not sure who's running the gateway, but king james II wrote it ;-)

A strong argument against monarchy :-P

Ronald

Ronald Otto Valentin

1/10/2007 8:45:00 AM

0

James Edward Gray II schrieb:
> On Jan 9, 2007, at 2:45 AM, Ronald Fischer wrote:
> I've looked into this thread and do not see a problem. The messages
> appear to have been gated correctly. Here's a link to the thread on
> the Usenet side:
>
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.ruby/brow...
> thread/e30bf5b62fb2ded6/56910ec15ff3617d?lnk=gst&q=Net%3A%
> 3ATelnet&rnum=1#56910ec15ff3617d
>
> Both messages show up there. They also both hit the mailing list:
>
> http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-t...
>
> http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-t...
>
> Unless I am missing something, everything appears to be functioning
> correctly.

I can demonstrate you the problem by two screenshots. First have a look
at http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9601/captu... .It shows
the message by Rodrigo which I am going to answer (the "hand" shaped
cursor points to the link "Antworten mit Zitat", which means "Reply
with
Quoting").

Now have a look at the second screenshot, taken after I clicked on
"Antworten mit Zitat":
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/281/captu...
You see that I can choose to either reply to Rodrigo by mail,
or to Reply to Ruby-Talk. There is no way to Reply to comp.lang.ruby!

Of course the question is now: Is this due to an error at GoogleGroups,
or because the message header of Rodrigo's message is faulty.
Unfortunately I don't have enogh knowledge to decide this.
My guess is that GoogleGroups just doesn't get the idea that I could
want to reply to comp.lang.ruby....

Ronald

James Gray

1/10/2007 1:32:00 PM

0

On Jan 10, 2007, at 2:50 AM, Ronny wrote:

> I can demonstrate you the problem by two screenshots. First have a
> look
> at http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9601/captu... .It shows
> the message by Rodrigo which I am going to answer (the "hand" shaped
> cursor points to the link "Antworten mit Zitat", which means "Reply
> with Quoting").

Interesting. The English interface of Google Groups has "Reply" and
"Reply to Author" where you are pointing in the screenshot. Both
include quoting. "Reply" builds a message addressed to
comp.lang.ruby and "Reply to Author" builds a response to Rodrigo.
(There is no way I can see to email Ruby Talk.)

As I see it, that tells us three things:

* This has nothing to do with the Ruby Gateway
* Google can get the interface right, when they want to
* The Google interface in your language is broken

I suggest you file a bug and consider alternate means to interact
with comp.lang.ruby.

James Edward Gray II

Martin DeMello

1/11/2007 12:09:00 PM

0

On 1/10/07, James Edward Gray II <james@grayproductions.net> wrote:
>
> I suggest you file a bug and consider alternate means to interact
> with comp.lang.ruby.

And seeing as how he's using a gmail account anyway, I'd suggest
subscribing to the mailing list from there, and filtering all posts
into a separate label. I did that when my nntp server was acting up,
and it works well enough that I feel no desire to go back to the
newsgroup view.

martin

Suraj Kurapati

1/14/2007 5:59:00 PM

0

James Gray wrote:
> * This has nothing to do with the Ruby Gateway
> * Google can get the interface right, when they want to
> * The Google interface in your language is broken
>
> I suggest you file a bug and consider alternate means to interact
> with comp.lang.ruby.

RubyForum (www.ruby-forum.com) is one such alternative.
IMHO it's very nice and convenient, with RSS feeds galore!

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Ronald Otto Valentin

1/15/2007 7:17:00 AM

0

Martin DeMello schrieb:
> On 1/10/07, James Edward Gray II <james@grayproductions.net> wrote:
> >
> > I suggest you file a bug and consider alternate means to interact
> > with comp.lang.ruby.
>
> And seeing as how he's using a gmail account anyway,

Actually I nearly never use the gmail account. I was kind of forced by
Google
to get it in order to post.

> I'd suggest
> subscribing to the mailing list from there, and filtering all posts
> into a separate label.

Yes, this would work, but the main problem is that what I am
experiencing,
might happen to many people. I don't think that it is obvious to
everyone that
when you start a discussion on the usenet, you are finally required to
also
subscribe to a mailing list in order to continue the discussion.

>From what I learned, the error is likely not within the
Usenet-Mailinglist-Gateway,
but in the way GoogleGroups handles them, so it should be Google which
correct
it. But of course they don't care about these issues. I have reported
the problem
to them several days ago, but as you might guess, I never got an
answer.

Ronald

James Gray

1/15/2007 2:57:00 PM

0

On Jan 15, 2007, at 1:20 AM, Ronny wrote:

> I don't think that it is obvious to
> everyone that
> when you start a discussion on the usenet, you are finally required to
> also
> subscribe to a mailing list in order to continue the discussion.

You're not. As long as your Usenet client is behaving. ;)

James Edward Gray II