Rob .
10/27/2006 4:38:00 PM
On 10/27/06, Cameron, Gemma (UK) <Gemma.Cameron@baesystems.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Paul but for now it might be best if I did
> just sit quietly in the corner like a good little girl.
Gemma, thanks for instigating a discussion on a grassroots Ruby
national/regional UK meetup! Please feel encouraged by the
conversation on this thread.
All Ruby meetings started with a few people doing what you've just
done, saying hey let's meet up and chat about this Ruby thing - naming
a date and place and the rest just sort of falls into place.
Some reminiscing ...
I was at the first NYC Ruby group meeting at the beginning of 2004.
That was one great guy, Francis Hwang, saying hey let's meet up. He'd
been encouraged by other great people who'd been organizing RubyConf.
We only averaged about 5 people a month that first year in New York,
but it was the day of the month I most looked forward to!
When I got to the UK, I was pleased to find many already interested in
Ruby, and it didn't take much effort for a few of us to turn that into
a monthly meeting in London.
Back to the point ...
I'm friends with Tom, and I feel his point was there're lots of us in
the UK and we're all interested and available to help out. We've got
contacts with people who'd love to come speak, and with organizations
that might like to sponsor or be involved.
> Thank you very much to the people who politely
> informed me of existing
> groups I can go along to. I'm glad that the profile
> of the brit ruby
> community has been raised and we're all now aware of meetings and
> groups. It would be nice one day to get these groups and communities
> together for a few drinks in Blackpool, Bournemouth, Brighton (or some
> other seaside resort beginning with B) one summer.... Plenty of time to
> plan.
At our local meetings around the UK let's discuss people's interest in
larger meetups. Maybe some will be encouraged to start a local meeting
too!
> At least we know there's some of us interested. ( :
> Would be a nice networking day if anything...
I'm sure we'll see a great meetup come of this!
cheers,
Rob McKinnon
>
> Gem
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Robinson [mailto:paul@iconoplex.co.uk]
> Sent: 27 October 2006 12:49
> To: ruby-talk ML
> Subject: Re: [ANN] Potential Brit ruby meeting formally Chunky Bacon
>
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>
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>
> On 26 Oct 2006, at 17:53, Tom Armitage wrote:
>
> > I'm just trying to point out that the best course of action as a
> > newbie is not to go "hey, let's have a conference, who here does
> > Ruby?" but rather to poke around for larger organisations such as
> > Geekup, LRUG, etc, who might be able to offer
> > advice/expertise/contacts/resources to make a really kickass
> > conference, rather than just a bunch of people loosely throwing things
>
> > together.
>
> Tom, you completely miss the point. What's more, you're kind of being a
> bit rude whilst you do it. Please take the rest of this mail in the
> gentle spirit in which it is intended.
>
> The simple truth is, meetings in the UK aren't easy for newbs to find.
> There aren't very many meetings anyway. What meetings there are, don't
> appeal to 80% of the community - they feel very 'cliquey'
> and 'elitist' to newbies. You certainly aren't doing much here to betray
> the opinion that they might not be very newbie-friendly. You make the
> community come across as almost hostile.
>
> And anyway, an over-priced Rails conference six weeks ago is not the
> same as a cheap Ruby meeting next year. A meeting in Germany is not a UK
> meeting. An LRUG is not the same as a UK meeting.
>
> She wanted a cheap UK Ruby meeting.
>
> There isn't one.
>
> She offered to sort it out for us.
>
> You told her off.
>
> You suck. :-)
>
> If LRUG wants to offer a UK meeting, they should, but they're not, so if
> Gemma wants to, why should anybody get in her way? I feel that you're
> belittling and patronising somebody who is trying to bring us together
> as a community.
>
> I don't care if she's a newbie. She was trying to do something for the
> good of us all. Telling her off doesn't help us, her, or you. It just
> makes you - and the rest of us who have been knocking around for a while
> - look mean.
>
> > This does not mean such an event can't be thrown together quickly and
> > affordably and without hassle, it's just prudent to look for peers
> > rather than assume you're the only people interested in doing stuff.
>
> Look at the list of people on this thread who said "I'm in", and ask
> yourself why they aren't attending LRUG or Euroko.
>
> I have no doubt LRUG is good at what it does. I have no doubt GeekUp is
> good at what it does. Had you thought maybe there is room for something
> different? Something fresh and new that might be to the benefit of us
> all?
>
> There are no formal communication channels within the Ruby community,
> outside of Matz accepting changes to the language.
>
> There is no need to look for peers for approval.
>
> If somebody wants to do something, they get to do it, and they deserve
> our unequivocal support for *trying*.
>
> If nobody shows up, well, hey-ho. C'est la vie.
>
> They should never, EVER feel they have to ask you or anybody else for
> what feels like 'permission'.
>
> You effectively *chastised* her for fuck's sake.
>
> I'm sad about that. Really, really sad. And angry. :-(
>
> > It's not a case of raining on parades or treading on toes. It's just
> > advice, and it's frustrating people charging into things.
>
> It's even more frustrating when I see mean people patronising a newb who
> is so enthusiastic, she wants to do something that benefits all of us.
>
> Now she won't feel she can. A whole new opportunity for us all has been
> lost because you decided to vent.
>
> It's easy to say "No, don't, because this thing exists and you should
> like it, god damn you", and much harder to say "sure, this thing is
> here, that thing is there, they might help, but if you want to do
> something else, we'll try and show up".
>
> Do the hard thing Tom, and stop saying things that make you sound like a
> jerk.
>
> I know you're not a jerk, but you kind of sound like one, here.
>
> Kind of. In a way. But not horrendously so.
>
> It's like this is trying to be the Perl or PHP community. We don't want
> it to be like that. Please let us get on with having fun.
>
> I hope you don't feel like I'm being horrible, but it had to be said,
> and nobody else was stepping up to the plate.
>
> Gemma: go for it. I'll show up if I can. I'll help if I can. Other
> people will to. You don't need to ask for permission, or look at what
> already exists. People on this thread are saying yes, because they don't
> like what is already on offer. There is no clique, core, or group you
> have to ask permission of. Anybody who tells you there is, or pretends
> there is, isn't one of the rest of us. Don't listen.
>
> @thread.responders.uniq.each { |possible_attendee|
> AddressBook << possible_attendee
> unless clique_members.include? possible_attendee
> possible_attendee.invite :possible_date => next_year
> end
> }
> @thread.close
>
> Respect Tom, regardless, no hard feelings,
>
> Paul