Paul Robinson
10/27/2006 11:49:00 AM
On 26 Oct 2006, at 17:53, Tom Armitage wrote:
> I'm just trying to point out that the best course of action as a
> newbie is not to go "hey, let's have a conference, who here does
> Ruby?" but rather to poke around for larger organisations such as
> Geekup, LRUG, etc, who might be able to offer
> advice/expertise/contacts/resources to make a really kickass
> conference, rather than just a bunch of people loosely throwing things
> together.
Tom, you completely miss the point. What's more, you're kind of being
a bit rude whilst you do it. Please take the rest of this mail in the
gentle spirit in which it is intended.
The simple truth is, meetings in the UK aren't easy for newbs to
find. There aren't very many meetings anyway. What meetings there
are, don't appeal to 80% of the community - they feel very 'cliquey'
and 'elitist' to newbies. You certainly aren't doing much here to
betray the opinion that they might not be very newbie-friendly. You
make the community come across as almost hostile.
And anyway, an over-priced Rails conference six weeks ago is not the
same as a cheap Ruby meeting next year. A meeting in Germany is not a
UK meeting. An LRUG is not the same as a UK meeting.
She wanted a cheap UK Ruby meeting.
There isn't one.
She offered to sort it out for us.
You told her off.
You suck. :-)
If LRUG wants to offer a UK meeting, they should, but they're not, so
if Gemma wants to, why should anybody get in her way? I feel that
you're belittling and patronising somebody who is trying to bring us
together as a community.
I don't care if she's a newbie. She was trying to do something for
the good of us all. Telling her off doesn't help us, her, or you. It
just makes you - and the rest of us who have been knocking around for
a while - look mean.
> This does not mean such an event can't be thrown together quickly and
> affordably and without hassle, it's just prudent to look for peers
> rather than assume you're the only people interested in doing stuff.
Look at the list of people on this thread who said "I'm in", and ask
yourself why they aren't attending LRUG or Euroko.
I have no doubt LRUG is good at what it does. I have no doubt GeekUp
is good at what it does. Had you thought maybe there is room for
something different? Something fresh and new that might be to the
benefit of us all?
There are no formal communication channels within the Ruby community,
outside of Matz accepting changes to the language.
There is no need to look for peers for approval.
If somebody wants to do something, they get to do it, and they
deserve our unequivocal support for *trying*.
If nobody shows up, well, hey-ho. C'est la vie.
They should never, EVER feel they have to ask you or anybody else for
what feels like 'permission'.
You effectively *chastised* her for fuck's sake.
I'm sad about that. Really, really sad. And angry. :-(
> It's not a case of raining on parades or treading on toes. It's just
> advice, and it's frustrating people charging into things.
It's even more frustrating when I see mean people patronising a newb
who is so enthusiastic, she wants to do something that benefits all
of us.
Now she won't feel she can. A whole new opportunity for us all has
been lost because you decided to vent.
It's easy to say "No, don't, because this thing exists and you should
like it, god damn you", and much harder to say "sure, this thing is
here, that thing is there, they might help, but if you want to do
something else, we'll try and show up".
Do the hard thing Tom, and stop saying things that make you sound
like a jerk.
I know you're not a jerk, but you kind of sound like one, here.
Kind of. In a way. But not horrendously so.
It's like this is trying to be the Perl or PHP community. We don't
want it to be like that. Please let us get on with having fun.
I hope you don't feel like I'm being horrible, but it had to be said,
and nobody else was stepping up to the plate.
Gemma: go for it. I'll show up if I can. I'll help if I can. Other
people will to. You don't need to ask for permission, or look at what
already exists. People on this thread are saying yes, because they
don't like what is already on offer. There is no clique, core, or
group you have to ask permission of. Anybody who tells you there is,
or pretends there is, isn't one of the rest of us. Don't listen.
@thread.responders.uniq.each { |possible_attendee|
AddressBook << possible_attendee
unless clique_members.include? possible_attendee
possible_attendee.invite :possible_date => next_year
end
}
@thread.close
Respect Tom, regardless, no hard feelings,
Paul