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comp.lang.ruby

Is there really an impending Ruby fracture???

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky

10/25/2006 5:45:00 AM

Well ... I've been home from RubyConf for a day now. I sort of expected
someone would have spotted this and commented on it (here) by now, but
they haven't. In any event, I came away from the conference with a
completely different view of the state of Ruby than David Pollak
apparently did.

https://www.lostlake.org/blog/index.php?/archives/11-The-Impending-Ruby-Fra...

M. Edward "That Guy" Borasky
26 Answers

benjohn

10/25/2006 9:17:00 AM

0

> Well ... I've been home from RubyConf for a day now. I sort of expected
> someone would have spotted this and commented on it (here) by now, but
> they haven't. In any event, I came away from the conference with a
> completely different view of the state of Ruby than David Pollak
> apparently did.
>
> https://www.lostlake.org/blog/index.php?/archives/11-The-Impending-Ruby-Fra...

I wasn't there, but I've posted a comment to the blog in response to
enterprises not being important.

Summary - regardless of whether you want to get them involved, they're
definitely worth learning from. Enterprises are large groups of people,
and they want to use computers to help the people in them communicate
effectively - they want "joined up data". This is what I want from
computers too. I want to be able to play and program and do lovely
things, but I want to be able to share that: share my data and everyone
else's just as if it was sitting in my process, and make use of every
piece of data and code without a bump. I want global objects, and
enterprises are spending billions on solving that for me, which is nice.

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky

10/25/2006 9:43:00 AM

0

benjohn@fysh.org wrote:
> I wasn't there, but I've posted a comment to the blog in response to
> enterprises not being important.
>
> Summary - regardless of whether you want to get them involved, they're
> definitely worth learning from. Enterprises are large groups of people,
> and they want to use computers to help the people in them communicate
> effectively - they want "joined up data". This is what I want from
> computers too. I want to be able to play and program and do lovely
> things, but I want to be able to share that: share my data and everyone
> else's just as if it was sitting in my process, and make use of every
> piece of data and code without a bump. I want global objects, and
> enterprises are spending billions on solving that for me, which is nice.

I don't know where you live, but here in the USA, there's a backlash to
all that "enterprisey joining of data". My snail mailbox is packed to
the brim with mail I don't want because someone "joined" my name and
address, credit rating, salary range, etc. and wasted precious natural
resources informing me of "opportunities" that I will *never* investigate.

Right now, the big deal is compliance with privacy and security
legislation. If Rails wants to be a killer app, they had damn well
better have ironclad solutions for those problems in addition to being
able to build a todo-list app in five minutes with one hand tied behind
the developer's back. :)

And yes, I *am* beating up on Rails. It's official. See

http://borasky-research.blogspot.com/2006/10/top-five-open-source-projects-of...

:)

Trans

10/25/2006 12:45:00 PM

0


M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
> Well ... I've been home from RubyConf for a day now. I sort of expected
> someone would have spotted this and commented on it (here) by now, but
> they haven't. In any event, I came away from the conference with a
> completely different view of the state of Ruby than David Pollak
> apparently did.
>
> https://www.lostlake.org/blog/index.php?/archives/11-The-Impending-Ruby-Fra...

"At the core, I think Ruby is defined by Rails. Sooner or later, the
Rails guys will realize they're the dog and start finding a tail that's
easier to wag for the customers with lots of money. That will likely
lead to fractured Ruby syntax and fractured Ruby dialects."

Now there's a statement to reckonwith.

T.

Rimantas Liubertas

10/25/2006 1:00:00 PM

0

> "At the core, I think Ruby is defined by Rails. Sooner or later, the
> Rails guys will realize they're the dog and start finding a tail that's
> easier to wag for the customers with lots of money. That will likely
> lead to fractured Ruby syntax and fractured Ruby dialects."

Am I the only one failing to see any sense in this?

--
Regards,
Rimantas
--
http://rim...

Brad Tilley

10/25/2006 1:32:00 PM

0

Rimantas Liubertas wrote:
>> "At the core, I think Ruby is defined by Rails.

> Am I the only one failing to see any sense in this?

Seems to be reversed to me. I see it the other way around.


--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Ken Bloom

10/25/2006 1:34:00 PM

0

On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 14:44:34 +0900, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:

> Well ... I've been home from RubyConf for a day now. I sort of expected
> someone would have spotted this and commented on it (here) by now, but
> they haven't. In any event, I came away from the conference with a
> completely different view of the state of Ruby than David Pollak
> apparently did.
>
> https://www.lostlake.org/blog/index.php?/archives/11-The-Impending-Ruby-Fra...
>
> M. Edward "That Guy" Borasky

"Evan Phoenix is a sys-admin turned hard-core programmer. He has been
working on a Ruby runtime in the spirit of a Smalltalk runtime called
Rubeneus."

Where is there information about this?

--
Ken Bloom. PhD candidate. Linguistic Cognition Laboratory.
Department of Computer Science. Illinois Institute of Technology.
http://www.iit.edu...
I've added a signing subkey to my GPG key. Please update your keyring.

Paul Battley

10/25/2006 1:37:00 PM

0

On 25/10/06, Trans <transfire@gmail.com> wrote:
> "At the core, I think Ruby is defined by Rails. Sooner or later, the
> Rails guys will realize they're the dog and start finding a tail that's
> easier to wag for the customers with lots of money. That will likely
> lead to fractured Ruby syntax and fractured Ruby dialects."
>
> Now there's a statement to reckonwith.

In a sense, the Rails tail has already begun to wag the Ruby dog.
According to Matz:

'With the spread of ActiveSupport, the need to handle symbols and
strings similarly seems to be increasing.'

The original statement in Japanese is here:
http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby...

Paul.

Paul Battley

10/25/2006 1:42:00 PM

0

On 25/10/06, Ken Bloom <kbloom@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Evan Phoenix is a sys-admin turned hard-core programmer. He has been
> working on a Ruby runtime in the spirit of a Smalltalk runtime called
> Rubeneus."
>
> Where is there information about this?

http://blog.nicksieger.com/articles/2006/10/20/rubyconf-sydney-an...
http://blog.fallin...
http://blog.zenspider.com/archives/2006/10/evan_phoenix_and_rubinius_has_a_blo...
http://redhanded.hobix.com/cult/evanSLittleRubyDuneBuggyIsInTheG...

Paul.

James Gray

10/25/2006 1:49:00 PM

0

On Oct 25, 2006, at 12:44 AM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:

> Well ... I've been home from RubyConf for a day now. I sort of
> expected
> someone would have spotted this and commented on it (here) by now, but
> they haven't. In any event, I came away from the conference with a
> completely different view of the state of Ruby than David Pollak
> apparently did.
>
> https://www.lostlake.org/blog/index.php?/archives/11-The-...
> Ruby-Fracture.html

From the article:

...Ruby.Net (Ruby that runs on the .Net VM, 1 full time coder
who was recently hired by Microsoft)...

Is this accurate? The parenthetical refers to the Ruby CLR guy, John
Lam, that gave a talk. I wasn't clear if this was the same project
that Ani was referring to as Ruby on .Net.

Also:

Matz has said that 1.9 would run native threads (rather
than the current green threads) but YARV will ship with
green threads because it's too difficult to maintain
compatibility with all the C extensions that have been
written for green threads.

That's not true. Koichi said that YARV will use native threads with
a giant VM lock as Python does in his talk. These are not green
threads.

Finally:

At the core, I think Ruby is defined by Rails.

I couldn't disagree more.

James Edward Gray II

Paul Battley

10/25/2006 1:55:00 PM

0

On 25/10/06, Robert Dober <robert.dober@gmail.com> wrote:
> The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
> persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress
> depends on the unreasonable man.
>
> - George Bernhard Shaw

I'm sure it's just a typo, but your misspelling of Shaw's name amused
me, given his views on English spelling!

Paul.