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Metaruby, BFTS, Cardinal and Rubicon - State of play?

chrisjroos@gmail.com

9/13/2006 8:48:00 AM

Hi,

I read Pat Eyler's interview with Kevin Tew[1] this morning. It got
me interested and reminded me of metaruby. I did a little reading and
am wondering the general state of play with regard to both metaruby
and bfts. Is rubicon (rubytests on rubyforge) basically dead, waiting
the release of bfts?

Cheers,

Chris

[1] http://on-ruby.blogspot.com/2006/09/ruby-hacker-interview-kevi...

26 Answers

Ryan Davis

9/13/2006 9:04:00 AM

0


On Sep 13, 2006, at 1:48 AM, Chris Roos wrote:

> I read Pat Eyler's interview with Kevin Tew[1] this morning. It got
> me interested and reminded me of metaruby. I did a little reading and
> am wondering the general state of play with regard to both metaruby
> and bfts. Is rubicon (rubytests on rubyforge) basically dead, waiting
> the release of bfts?

Metaruby and BFTS are moving along, slowly (for no other reason than
the sheer number of projects we have on our plate, not lack of
interest). We'd happily take people interested in either one.

Rubicon is dead for all intents and purposes.


chrisjroos@gmail.com

9/13/2006 9:19:00 AM

0

On 9/13/06, Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote:
>
> On Sep 13, 2006, at 1:48 AM, Chris Roos wrote:
>
> > I read Pat Eyler's interview with Kevin Tew[1] this morning. It got
> > me interested and reminded me of metaruby. I did a little reading and
> > am wondering the general state of play with regard to both metaruby
> > and bfts. Is rubicon (rubytests on rubyforge) basically dead, waiting
> > the release of bfts?
>
> Metaruby and BFTS are moving along, slowly (for no other reason than
> the sheer number of projects we have on our plate, not lack of
> interest). We'd happily take people interested in either one.
>
I'd like to help but am unsure as to my time/skill applicability. Is
it possible to get a look at the source out of general interest?

Chris

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky

9/13/2006 1:32:00 PM

0

Ryan Davis wrote:
>
> On Sep 13, 2006, at 1:48 AM, Chris Roos wrote:
>
>> I read Pat Eyler's interview with Kevin Tew[1] this morning. It got
>> me interested and reminded me of metaruby. I did a little reading and
>> am wondering the general state of play with regard to both metaruby
>> and bfts. Is rubicon (rubytests on rubyforge) basically dead, waiting
>> the release of bfts?
>
> Metaruby and BFTS are moving along, slowly (for no other reason than the
> sheer number of projects we have on our plate, not lack of interest).
> We'd happily take people interested in either one.
>
> Rubicon is dead for all intents and purposes.
>
>
>
Remind me again what Metaruby is. I know what BFTS is and can't wait to
get my mitts on it.

chrisjroos@gmail.com

9/13/2006 1:40:00 PM

0

> Remind me again what Metaruby is. I know what BFTS is and can't wait to
> get my mitts on it.
>
>
Metaruby[1] is ruby (Matz's ruby) written in ruby. Others may be able
to provide a better explanation...

[1] http://www.zenspider.com/Languages/Ruby/Met...

pat eyler

9/13/2006 1:45:00 PM

0

On 9/13/06, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky <znmeb@cesmail.net> wrote:
> > On Sep 13, 2006, at 1:48 AM, Chris Roos wrote:
> >> I read Pat Eyler's interview with Kevin Tew[1] this morning. It got
> >> me interested and reminded me of metaruby.

I'm glad somebody read it ;)

I'm even happier that it's drawing some attention to the various
Ruby implementations and the growing toolkit around them.

> >>I did a little reading and
> >> am wondering the general state of play with regard to both metaruby
> >> and bfts. Is rubicon (rubytests on rubyforge) basically dead, waiting
> >> the release of bfts?
> >
> Remind me again what Metaruby is. I know what BFTS is and can't wait to
> get my mitts on it.
>
>


Metaruby is the reimplimentation of Ruby in Ruby, with a translation
mechanism to convert the core to C.


--
thanks,
-pate
-------------------------
http://on-ruby.bl...

Austin Ziegler

9/13/2006 2:59:00 PM

0

On 9/13/06, pat eyler <pat.eyler@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9/13/06, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky <znmeb@cesmail.net> wrote:
> > > On Sep 13, 2006, at 1:48 AM, Chris Roos wrote:
> > >> I read Pat Eyler's interview with Kevin Tew[1] this morning. It got
> > >> me interested and reminded me of metaruby.
> I'm glad somebody read it ;)
>
> I'm even happier that it's drawing some attention to the various
> Ruby implementations and the growing toolkit around them.

I'd be happier if Mr Tew didn't try to lend legitimacy to the alioth
shootout. Microbenchmarks don't show anything useful, even if they're
run correctly -- which the shootout has never been run correctly. It
isn't even administered correctly. (I was similarly annoyed that Joel
Spolsky used it in his latest slam on Ruby. Stupid, Joel, stupid.)

-austin
--
Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com * http://www.halo...
* austin@halostatue.ca * http://www.halo...feed/
* austin@zieglers.ca

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky

9/14/2006 4:05:00 AM

0

Austin Ziegler wrote:
>> I'm even happier that it's drawing some attention to the various
>> Ruby implementations and the growing toolkit around them.
>
> I'd be happier if Mr Tew didn't try to lend legitimacy to the alioth
> shootout. Microbenchmarks don't show anything useful, even if they're
> run correctly -- which the shootout has never been run correctly. It
> isn't even administered correctly. (I was similarly annoyed that Joel
> Spolsky used it in his latest slam on Ruby. Stupid, Joel, stupid.)
>
> -austin
Well ... as a working performance engineer, I'm going to defend
microbenchmarks as virtually (no pun intended) the *only* way to improve
performance over all for the Ruby interpreter, coupled of course with
profiling said interpreter and careful design of the data structures the
interpreter must maintain during execution.

The simple fact is that programmers are going to write nested loops,
either explicitly a la Fortran or implicitly, for example, in

a = mat1*mat2

where mat1 and mat2 are matrices defined with "Matrix." Programmers are
going to read large files and apply regular expression transformations
to every line in those files. Programmers are going to define data
structures for real-world problems just like they do for the Tower of
Hanoi benchmark. To quote Yul Brynner, "Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera."

M. Edward (Ed) Borasky

9/14/2006 2:46:00 PM

0

Robert Dober wrote:
> And you benchmark algorithms written in the same language, BUT the shootout
> benchmarks *different languages* and I have looked at the algorithms they
> use just once, that was enough.
>
> The point is use it as a tool if you find it useful, but here it is used
> for
> advocacy.
>
> Cheers
> Robert
It's a perfectly natural desire to want to compare languages. To do that
requires micro-benchmarks that will execute in all of the languages. But
I think you're missing my point, which is that Ruby is slower than the
other dynamic languages on microbenchmarks because the implementation of
Ruby hasn't been performance-tuned to the extent that Perl, Python and
PHP have been tuned. It's not, as far as I can tell, because of anything
fundamental in the syntax or semantics of the Ruby language that
prohibits that tuning.

So rather than whine about advocacy or say "I looked at the algorithms
they use just once, that was enough", why not look at the algorithms
they use and tune the Ruby interpreter so it executes those algorithms
as efficiently as Perl, PHP and Python? Benchmarketing is a fact of life
in the "computer industry". Fortunes are made and lost because one gizmo
is faster than another gizmo on some "meaningless benchmark".

In short:

1. I don't see any fundamental reason why Ruby can't be as fast as Perl,
Python, or PHP.
2. It isn't there yet.

Alex LeDonne

9/14/2006 3:13:00 PM

0

On 9/13/06, Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote:
> Rubicon is dead for all intents and purposes.

Did it die on the vine, or has it been replaced?

-A

pat eyler

9/14/2006 3:18:00 PM

0

On 9/14/06, Alex LeDonne <aledonne.listmail@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9/13/06, Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote:
> > Rubicon is dead for all intents and purposes.
>
> Did it die on the vine, or has it been replaced?

It is being replaced.


>
> -A
>
>


--
thanks,
-pate
-------------------------
http://on-ruby.bl...