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comp.lang.ruby

Ruby-Lang Redesign Feedback

John W. Long

8/24/2006 1:54:00 PM

At about 4 this afternoon we are going to commence discussion of the
Ruby-Lang redesign on the vit-discuss mailing-list:

http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/v...

This won't be a nit-picking session, but we are looking for feedback
about the content of the new Web site. If you want to participate,
subscribe to the list above.

Please DO NOT respond to this e-mail message with suggestions for the
new Web site. We would like to monitor feedback in one location (the
vit-discuss mailing list).

If you haven't seen the new design already, you might enjoy browsing
through it here:

http://new.ruby...

--
John Long
for the Ruby Visual Identity Team
23 Answers

Gavin Kistner

8/24/2006 2:43:00 PM

0

John W. Long wrote:
> At about 4 this afternoon we are going to commence discussion of the
> Ruby-Lang redesign on the vit-discuss mailing-list:
>
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/v...

4...in what timezone? 0400 GMT?

John W. Long

8/24/2006 2:52:00 PM

0

Phrogz wrote:
> John W. Long wrote:
>> At about 4 this afternoon we are going to commence discussion of the
>> Ruby-Lang redesign on the vit-discuss mailing-list:
>>
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/v...
>
> 4...in what timezone? 0400 GMT?

Good question. Eastern.

--
John Long
http://wiseheart...
http://radi...

Jacob Fugal

8/24/2006 3:49:00 PM

0

On 8/24/06, Phrogz <gavin@refinery.com> wrote:
> John W. Long wrote:
> > At about 4 this afternoon we are going to commence discussion of the
> > Ruby-Lang redesign on the vit-discuss mailing-list:
> >
> > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/v...
>
> 4...in what timezone? 0400 GMT?

2006-08-24 20:00:00 UTC

Kyrre Nygård

8/25/2006 4:22:00 PM

0


Hello, I hope this feedback is of at least some value:

On http://redhanded.hobix.com/red...

The design metaphor of the new Ruby website should be `usability'
(which the existing website could easily fulfill if it is subjected
to some natural selection) and not `inexperienced decoration' -- Ruby
is the most usable programming language available today so anything
related to it should also shine with usability all the way through,
in order to keep Ruby's identity consistent. Learn from the masters:
http://www.n...

The layout has a lot of uncontrolled gradients, which is completely
meaningless. It seems to have no other meaning rather than to `look
pretty', however it fails in that too -- I've asked a few trained
eyes and they feel the layout is structured like the workings of a
confused architecture student struggling through his first year, and
the gradient is bevelling out like a badly constructed 3D animation.
As a rule of thumb, when inexperienced designers try to create
advanced designs just to achieve that extra wow-factor, the result
will always be disappointing.

Also, the big giant Ruby in the Ruby logo is way too much, isn't it?
A logo is meant to be `the world in compressed form' and should be as
minimal as possible and carry an intelligent twist which makes it
both cool and unique. Look at the book `Tres Logos' for world class
examples:
http://www.die-gestalten.de/books/detail?id=be0db8100aeaffa2010b1e...

I hope I didn't offend the author of the redesign. But if he's a good
designer, he won't feel offended.

All the best,
Kyrre

John W. Long

8/25/2006 4:34:00 PM

0

Kyrre Nygård wrote:
> Hello, I hope this feedback is of at least some value:
>
> On http://redhanded.hobix.com/red...

Kyree, we have asked that discussion of the new redesign take place on
the vit-discuss mailing list:

http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/v...

Please post thoughts or comments there.

--
John Long
http://wiseheart...

James Gray

8/25/2006 4:52:00 PM

0

On Aug 25, 2006, at 11:21 AM, Kyrre Nygård wrote:

> Hello, I hope this feedback is of at least some value:
>
> On http://redhanded.hobix.com/red...
>
> The design metaphor of the new Ruby website should be
> `usability' (which the existing website could easily fulfill if it
> is subjected to some natural selection) and not `inexperienced
> decoration' -- Ruby is the most usable programming language
> available today so anything related to it should also shine with
> usability all the way through, in order to keep Ruby's identity
> consistent. Learn from the masters: http://www.n...
>
> The layout has a lot of uncontrolled gradients, which is completely
> meaningless. It seems to have no other meaning rather than to `look
> pretty', however it fails in that too -- I've asked a few trained
> eyes and they feel the layout is structured like the workings of a
> confused architecture student struggling through his first year,
> and the gradient is bevelling out like a badly constructed 3D
> animation. As a rule of thumb, when inexperienced designers try to
> create advanced designs just to achieve that extra wow-factor, the
> result will always be disappointing.
>
> Also, the big giant Ruby in the Ruby logo is way too much, isn't
> it? A logo is meant to be `the world in compressed form' and should
> be as minimal as possible and carry an intelligent twist which
> makes it both cool and unique. Look at the book `Tres Logos' for
> world class examples: http://www.die-gestalten.de/boo...
> id=be0db8100aeaffa2010b1ef5c969002e

We look forward to your site design submission and will definitely
evaluate the possibility of switching to it when it shows up.

James Edward Gray II

Rich Morin

8/25/2006 5:18:00 PM

0

At 1:51 AM +0900 8/26/06, James Edward Gray II wrote:
> We look forward to your site design submission and will definitely
> evaluate the possibility of switching to it when it shows up.

:-)
--
http://www.cf... Rich Morin
http://www.cf.../resume rdm@cfcl.com
http://www.cf.../weblog +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

Chad Perrin

8/25/2006 8:56:00 PM

0

On Sat, Aug 26, 2006 at 01:21:44AM +0900, Kyrre Nygård wrote:
>
> The design metaphor of the new Ruby website should be `usability'
> (which the existing website could easily fulfill if it is subjected
> to some natural selection) and not `inexperienced decoration' -- Ruby
> is the most usable programming language available today so anything
> related to it should also shine with usability all the way through,
> in order to keep Ruby's identity consistent. Learn from the masters:
> http://www.n...

I've been reading their stuff for years, and you're right -- these
people know what they're talking about. On the other hand, do what they
say, not what they do. That website has always been an eyesore.
Usability need not be synonymous with "fugly". Also, despite the
expertise behind these people, they suffer from an apparent inability to
follow their own advice all the time: at first glance, I see a few
violations of their own principles right there on the first page.

As for the rest, you make some points, but to be accurate their wattage
needs to be reduced about 50%. Yes, the logo should be adjusted, but
the size of the ruby isn't an unmitigated disaster. Yes, the "pretty
factor" is a little more than necessary, but it's not overwhelmingly
bad.

Frankly, there are really only two things about the appearance of the
design to be really examined, as far as I can see:

1. Is there anything about the design that's simply gratuitous? Go
through every single design decision and, for each one, ask yourself
whether it could be scaled back without losing anything.

2. Why the heck doesn't it take advantage of the entire width of the
user's browser? I seem to recall that the design had a fixed width,
while the "old" design has a width that varies with browser window
size. I could be wrong (and the new design is gone now so that I
can't double-check), but if it's not a fixed width I think it probably
at least has a bit too much of a trough on either side of the main
content area.

That's not to say that text should be bleeding off the sides, of course.
Keep the width of the content area narrow enough in comparison to the
screen width to make it appear to be a cohesive package. Just don't
waste screen real estate as the browser gets resized.


>
> I hope I didn't offend the author of the redesign. But if he's a good
> designer, he won't feel offended.

. . even when you said he was obviously some kind of inferior amateur
because a good designer would never have made such errors? I understand
your intent, but it could probably have been delivered a little more
diplomatically.

--
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
"It's just incredible that a trillion-synapse computer could actually
spend Saturday afternoon watching a football game." - Marvin Minsky

John W. Long

8/25/2006 9:56:00 PM

0

Chad Perrin wrote:
> Frankly, there are really only two things about the appearance of the
> design to be really examined, as far as I can see:

As I asked before, please have this discussion over on vit-discuss:

http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/v...

--
John Long
http://wiseheart...
http://radi...

James Britt

8/25/2006 10:08:00 PM

0

John W. Long wrote:
> Chad Perrin wrote:
>
>> Frankly, there are really only two things about the appearance of the
>> design to be really examined, as far as I can see:
>
>
> As I asked before, please have this discussion over on vit-discuss:
>
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/v...
>

At dinner recently with a gang of Rubyists, someone mentioned that
they've used this as an employment screen. Their company would post an
announcement of a job opening on a mailing list, and clearly ask that
people NOT post resumes back to the list, but instead contact the
company directly.

Those who could not follow this basic request were deemed unsuitable for
employment.


--
James Britt

"I never dispute another person's delusions, just their facts."
- Len Bullard