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comp.lang.ruby

Re: state of unicode support

Berger, Daniel

7/28/2006 3:46:00 PM



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chad Perrin [mailto:perrin@apotheon.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 9:27 AM
> To: ruby-talk ML
> Subject: Re: state of unicode support
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 12:05:26AM +0900, Berger, Daniel wrote:
> > >
> > > I've heard rumors that "oniguruma fixes everything", and the
> > > like. I'm sure that's a touch of hyperbole, but in any case:
> > >
> > > What's the current state of Unicode support in Ruby? My
> > > recollection is of Unicode support somewhat lacking.
> >
> > Good grief, this was *just* covered ad nauseum recently.
> Search the
> > archives.
>
> Good grief, you're a prick. Thanks for the help. Has
> everyone in the world been on this mailing list since it was started?

Somehow you missed this 300+ long thread started June 13 and lasted
replied to on June 28:

http://tinyurl...

- Dan


This communication is the property of Qwest and may contain confidential or
privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is strictly
prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication
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16 Answers

Chad Perrin

7/28/2006 3:52:00 PM

0

On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 12:46:25AM +0900, Berger, Daniel wrote:
>
> Somehow you missed this 300+ long thread started June 13 and lasted
> replied to on June 28:

Maybe that has something to do with the fact that I've been an
intermittent member of this list, not a constant member, since I first
discovered it -- and my most recent membership (this one) started on the
25th of this month.

--
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
This sig for rent: a Signify v1.14 production from http://www.d...

Chad Perrin

7/28/2006 3:53:00 PM

0

On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 12:46:25AM +0900, Berger, Daniel wrote:
>
> http://tinyurl...

. . and holy crap. Would someone please provide a one-sentence
summary so I can get back to my life? Something akin to "Everything's
awesome now with 1.9!" or "It's not quite there yet, but it's close," or
even "It's as broken as ever, but regex support is better," would
suffice.

--
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
"The ability to quote is a serviceable
substitute for wit." - W. Somerset Maugham

Cliff Cyphers

7/28/2006 4:40:00 PM

0

Chad Perrin wrote:
> Maybe that has something to do with the fact that I've been an
> intermittent member of this list, not a constant member, since I first
> discovered it -- and my most recent membership (this one) started on the
> 25th of this month.
>

It shouldn't matter if one is constantly subscribed. One should search
archive to see if question already discussed before posting dup. Given
that sometimes one might not have a search sting that doesn't find a
match there are cases where there will be dups. But at least try.

Chad Perrin

7/28/2006 4:54:00 PM

0

On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 01:39:34AM +0900, Cliff Cyphers wrote:
> Chad Perrin wrote:
> >Maybe that has something to do with the fact that I've been an
> >intermittent member of this list, not a constant member, since I first
> >discovered it -- and my most recent membership (this one) started on the
> >25th of this month.
>
> It shouldn't matter if one is constantly subscribed. One should search
> archive to see if question already discussed before posting dup. Given
> that sometimes one might not have a search sting that doesn't find a
> match there are cases where there will be dups. But at least try.

News flash: I used Google and found a grand total of two posts from that
thread before I posted the question -- two posts that didn't help. I'm
not a complete moron, thanks.

Drop the friggin' subject. Forget I asked. It's not worth an entire
thread devoted entirely to a defense of my decision to ask rather than
rely on incomplete addressing of a simple question asking for a summary
response that spanned more than fifty emails, requiring hours of reading
just to get to an answer that's something like "Regex support good,
strict Unicode support good, localization via Unicode needs work." WTF?
Is your time so damned precious that you can't spend thirty seconds
posting a one-sentence summary response rather than twenty minutes
chastising me for not wasting hours finding out almost nothing?

I recently saw a couple posts lamenting the downhill trend of Ruby
community friendliness. At the time, I'd been on this list for about a
day and a half this time around, and couldn't really comment. On a
previous occasion when I followed this list for a bit, my impression was
"Those guys at ruby-talk are a great bunch of guys, unless you ask about
the nature of :symbols, in which case you'll get useless answers and
someone trying to give useful answers will get his head bitten off.
Otherwise, friendliest programming community I've ever seen." Now,
judging mostly by reactions others have received for innocent questions
and comments, and a couple of reactions I myself have received, it looks
like things have degenerated.

The old guard I recall (D. Black, Matz, et cetera) seem mostly to still
be a great bunch of guys from the posts I've witnessed "realtime" and
the recent archives I've read, but some others here need an attitude
check. Seriously.

"It shouldn't matter if one is constantly subscribed." Yeah. 'Cause at
a rate of hundreds of posts a day (wild guesstimate -- I don't have time
to actually count 'em), I really have time to read the last six months
of archives to see if I've missed something relevant. Even a search
engine won't solve that problem effectively. Maybe next time you should
say "Have you checked the archives? There's something relevant in there
from last month. Does it answer your question?" rather than the
equivalent of "Someone already said Unicode this year! Out, heathen!"

--
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
This sig for rent: a Signify v1.14 production from http://www.d...

Berger, Daniel

7/28/2006 4:58:00 PM

0

Chad Perrin wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 01:39:34AM +0900, Cliff Cyphers wrote:
>> Chad Perrin wrote:
>>> Maybe that has something to do with the fact that I've been an
>>> intermittent member of this list, not a constant member, since I first
>>> discovered it -- and my most recent membership (this one) started on the
>>> 25th of this month.
>> It shouldn't matter if one is constantly subscribed. One should search
>> archive to see if question already discussed before posting dup. Given
>> that sometimes one might not have a search sting that doesn't find a
>> match there are cases where there will be dups. But at least try.
>
> News flash: I used Google and found a grand total of two posts from that
> thread before I posted the question -- two posts that didn't help. I'm
> not a complete moron, thanks.

<snip rant>

Cookie?

- Dan


This communication is the property of Qwest and may contain confidential or
privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is strictly
prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication
in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy
all copies of the communication and any attachments.

Chad Perrin

7/28/2006 5:03:00 PM

0

On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 01:58:07AM +0900, Daniel Berger wrote:
> Chad Perrin wrote:
> >On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 01:39:34AM +0900, Cliff Cyphers wrote:
> >>Chad Perrin wrote:
> >>>Maybe that has something to do with the fact that I've been an
> >>>intermittent member of this list, not a constant member, since I first
> >>>discovered it -- and my most recent membership (this one) started on the
> >>>25th of this month.
> >>It shouldn't matter if one is constantly subscribed. One should search
> >>archive to see if question already discussed before posting dup. Given
> >>that sometimes one might not have a search sting that doesn't find a
> >>match there are cases where there will be dups. But at least try.
> >
> >News flash: I used Google and found a grand total of two posts from that
> >thread before I posted the question -- two posts that didn't help. I'm
> >not a complete moron, thanks.
>
> <snip rant>
>
> Cookie?

Is that a joking bit of peace-offering, or should I confine my comments
to an off-list response? Your response in particular has been less than
friendly in this case, and I'm less than optimistic in regards to your
motive in saying that. Specifically, I get the impression that you're
being a sarcastic <censored for length and inappropriateness to the
list>.

--
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
"The measure on a man's real character is what he would do
if he knew he would never be found out." - Thomas McCauley

Garance A Drosehn

7/28/2006 5:07:00 PM

0

On 7/28/06, Chad Perrin <perrin@apotheon.com> wrote:
>
> Drop the friggin' subject. Forget I asked. It's not worth an entire
> thread devoted entirely to a defense of my decision to ask

I think the real problem here is not that you happened to ask a
question that comes up repeatedly, but that the last thread on
that question basically ended with everyone too beat up to
talk anymore.

You're hitting a sore nerve for some people. That is not your
fault, of course, but that nerve still is a bit sore... I, for one,
was not particularly impressed with the way the earlier thread
ended (stumbling to a close), but I'd really hate to see it start
up again!

--
Garance Alistair Drosehn = drosihn@gmail.com
Senior Systems Programmer
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA

Chad Perrin

7/28/2006 5:13:00 PM

0

On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 02:06:53AM +0900, Garance A Drosehn wrote:
> On 7/28/06, Chad Perrin <perrin@apotheon.com> wrote:
> >
> >Drop the friggin' subject. Forget I asked. It's not worth an entire
> >thread devoted entirely to a defense of my decision to ask
>
> I think the real problem here is not that you happened to ask a
> question that comes up repeatedly, but that the last thread on
> that question basically ended with everyone too beat up to
> talk anymore.
>
> You're hitting a sore nerve for some people. That is not your
> fault, of course, but that nerve still is a bit sore... I, for one,
> was not particularly impressed with the way the earlier thread
> ended (stumbling to a close), but I'd really hate to see it start
> up again!

Thanks for the explanation. It's nice to occasionally get a civil
response.

--
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
print substr("Just another Perl hacker", 0, -2);

Gregory Brown

7/28/2006 5:51:00 PM

0

On 7/28/06, Charles O Nutter <headius@headius.com> wrote:
> On 7/28/06, Chad Perrin <perrin@apotheon.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 12:46:25AM +0900, Berger, Daniel wrote:
> > >
> > > http://tinyurl...
> >
> > . . . and holy crap. Would someone please provide a one-sentence
> > summary so I can get back to my life? Something akin to "Everything's
> > awesome now with 1.9!" or "It's not quite there yet, but it's close," or
> > even "It's as broken as ever, but regex support is better," would
> > suffice.
> >
>
> Oh come on, you don't want to read all those bazillion emails to get the
> bottom line? :)
>
> Seriously though y'all, isn't there a nice, short FAQ out there somewhere? I
> haven't been able to find one. There must be something, right?

Lest we start another flamewar on Unicode, can we please, please,
pretty please remember MINASWAN?

I'm really getting tired of seeing all these sarcastic posts and also
personal attacks on this list. I barely read RubyTalk anymore because
of it, and it makes me sad because I really do love this list, and
many of the people on it.

But I'm seriously considering unsubscribing because of how no one
(except the folks who have been around for quite some time) seems to
respect the very thing that attracted me to Ruby, the friendliness of
it's community.

As far as unicode support goes, it's a complicated topic. People who
want to sum it up in one line probably don't really care about the
tough design decisions behind it.

Chad Perrin

7/28/2006 6:24:00 PM

0

On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 02:51:10AM +0900, Gregory Brown wrote:
>
> As far as unicode support goes, it's a complicated topic. People who
> want to sum it up in one line probably don't really care about the
> tough design decisions behind it.

. . or already have some vague idea of what Ruby Unicode support was
like a year ago, and just want a brief update for purposes of tool
evaluation for a project, or want to know the truth behind something
someone said in another venue, or . . .

. . or maybe you should assume good faith rather than jumping to
conclusions once in a while.

--
CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.ap... ]
Ben Franklin: "As we enjoy great Advantages from the Inventions of
others we should be glad of an Opportunity to serve others by any
Invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously."