Spiritus
7/18/2009 8:02:00 PM
You're right, Pieter. In context, he's talking more about the Real
Self here. However, I saw the question as an open one--a challenge if
you will, in the sense of a reminder, because we all need reminded now
and again. I think the intricacies of the egoic self are too
complicated to ferret out entirely, but we (generally) have to know
enough of its tricks and machinations so as to avoid the pitfalls and
traps.
I see the question being: Who are you allowing to run your life at
this moment--false self or Real Self? As I'd guess you know, it's
hard to sustain an awareness of Real Self for most people, so they
(we) need the reminders.
On Jul 18, 3:41 pm, "Pieter" <hrdou...@zonnet.nl> wrote:
> On 17 jul, 23:32, Spiritus <spiritu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 16, 1:32 pm, "Pieter" <hrdou...@zonnet.nl> wrote:
>
> > > On 16 jul, 13:35, Spiritus <spiritu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 16, 6:49 am, "Pieter" <hrdou...@zonnet.nl> wrote:
>
> > > > > "Spiritus" <spiritu...@gmail.com> schreef in
> > > > > berichtnews:38ea5866-3858-4e0f-8b3e-03e6e6641ea5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>
> [Pieter:]
>
> > > > > > To me it is remarkable that the pristine text reads
> > > > > > "*What* is the you who are living in this world?"--
>
> [Spiritus:]
>
> > > > > What kind of self is this, that is not even a who? The only thing
> > > > > that holds it all together, in all its broken fragmentedness, is our
> > > > > imagination. It is a thing, a concept, a series of concepts, a
> > > > > construct in our mind that seems to hold together within the
> > > > > duration
> > > > > of time--for it is based primarily on the past.
>
> > > > > So, the self is a thought of the past, a system of thoughts (at
> > > > > best),
> > > > > based on the past. It need not affect us now, or any now we choose.
> > > > > It need not tie us down to limitation and certain death. We can let
> > > > > it slip on into the past from which it came, and find a Self in
> > > > > What--
> > > > > and Who--is left.
>
> [Pieter:]
>
> > > > > - You are speaking of the false self
> > > > > we made ourselves. Here on earth
> > > > > we think we are what we are not.
> > > > > We are NOT a false self; we still
> > > > > are as God created us.
> > > > > Jesus says:
> > > > > "Teach only love, for that is what you are."
> > > > > T-6.I.13:2.
> > > > > So we, God's creations, are love.
> > > > > Love is one. Would it make sense to say:
> > > > > "Teach only love, for that is who you are"?
>
> [Spiritus:]
>
> > > > Yes, Pieter, I was speaking of the false self.
>
> [Pieter:]
>
> > > - Why answer the question
> > > with what we are NOT?
> > > (Why be the devil's advocate? :-) )
>
> [Spiritus:]
>
> > Because I think you need to know *what* you're transcending in order
> > truly to transcend it.
> > That doesn't mean you dwell on it, because you don't. But if you're
> > interested in removing the
> > interference, the obstacle, then you have to analyze it enough to know
> > that you no longer want it.
> > (You point up all its negative consequences so that you can break the
> > plane of its gravity.)
> > After all, we are the ones who decided to go this way (away from God);
> > don't we have in some way to trace our way back, with the new skills
> > with which He has endowed us?
>
> The point is: you think that with Jesus' question
> "What IS the you who are living in this world?"
> he means the false self-made self, that is: the ego,
> while I maintain that he means what we are in truth.
> What you describe above is in line with chapter 11
> section V "The"Dynamics" of the Ego", where Jesus
> says
>
> "We are ready to look more closely at the ego's
> thought system because together we have the lamp
> that will dispel it, and since you realize you do not
> want it, you must be ready."
>
> In the whole Course Jesus makes a difference between
> "you", the reader, and "the ego", and the whole Course
> is about freeing us from our identification with it. In the
> workbook he answers the question "what am I?" for us
> in lesson 95, and in the 'special thought' after lesson 350:
>
> "I am God's Son, complete and healed and whole,
> shining in the reflection of His Love.
> In me is His creation sanctified
> and guaranteed eternal life. In me
> is love perfected, fear impossible,
> and joy established without opposite.
> I am the holy home of God Himself.
> I am the Heaven where His Love resides.
> I am His holy Sinlessness Itself,
> for in my purity abides His Own."