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comp.lang.ruby

Ruby in universities ?

surf

6/29/2006 12:06:00 AM


Not sure if this is a dumb question, but
if I start a masters degree in computer science, will the classes
require that I write in C++ and Java ? Since those are more common,
that's what I might expect. Too bad because I am really starting to
like Ruby alot.

Only 20 ruby jobs listed on boston craigs list, 300 or so for Perl. I
wonder when this
might start to change ?
69 Answers

Jonathan Heinen

6/29/2006 8:06:00 AM

0

surfunbear@yahoo.com schrieb:
> Not sure if this is a dumb question, but
> if I start a masters degree in computer science, will the classes
> require that I write in C++ and Java ? Since those are more common,
> that's what I might expect. Too bad because I am really starting to
> like Ruby alot.

I'm loving java and I think it's a good thing to get to know about a
couple of programming languages! Learning something about java o c++
even can help you advance your ruby!

Jonathan

surf

6/29/2006 12:07:00 PM

0


I have nothing against java per se. However, I have not felt motivated
to study j2ee.
I need something I can develop a project on on my PC and rails works
well with that.
That way I can learn a technology while writting code that seems
usefull and motivating
(fun).
I could see that j2ee might work well in a corporate environment with
lots of developers.
I'm not sure where I would fit into that picture. Maybe doing some sort
of enterprise bean work. The problem is there is so much infrastructure
to learn the details of. I was put off by the Java certification exams
which is about memorizing API's and things that seem
to go against the type of academic way of learning I enjoyed studying
computer science as an undergrad where you had development projects and
you wrote code. I wrote a linker in PDP 11 assembly language and we
wrote a pascal compiler in C++ that generated P-code. That stuff was
all great, but memorizing an API and then feeding it back to an
automated exam sounds like a scary way of learning to me. The first
level Java certification exam maybe wasn't so bad (SCJP), but I started
looking at what follows for the SCWCD and it seemed even less
appealing. I have both those books and read most of the SCJP and alot
of the other one, but after I bought my first Ruby for Rails book I
haven't touched any of that stuff. In the past month I have purchased a
total of 7 ruby or ruby/rails books. I wrote a shopping cart for a
friend and am on another project currently . I can understand perhaps
the argument for the certified exam process in terms of cost saving,
but if that's what higher education is comeing to, then perhaps we are
in serious trouble. The other thing about studying j2ee, is I felt I
was learning
more about infrastructure than things more directly related to
programming. Programming is my strength and main interest. I am not a
good nor highly motivated admin. The level of infrastructure in j2ee
seemed very high such that for my own development project on my PC it
seems approaching the impractical. It seems more suited to a corporate
environment which is fine, but working with a learning project of my
own it seems harder to get motivated. I could do something else with
java unrelated to J2ee, but there's so many java requirements with j2ee
and all to land a job.





The other thing I like about ruby is the perl like way of processing
text and pattern matching which lads to very effective string
manipulation. I aloso really like the built in hashing. I see there is
a perl in java implementation, though I don't know how naturaly it fits
into the language.

I may have to go back to Java to get employment, but I'm not sure how
that would pan out, which Java API I would end up working with, or if I
would be happy with that situation or not.

Currently I am wondering how hard it would be to set up my own web
server on a PC
at my condo. I have a DSL connection, but am not very educated on web
servers,
I wonder if I could run my stuff or start a business using just a PC
for a web server and my current ISP. This would be for low to moderate
traffic. Any site I hosted
that started to have high traffic (and thus revenue hopefully) I would
have to move to some other host. I am fairly ignorant of the issues
involved in running a web server and need to find out more.















Jonathan Heinen wrote:
> surfunbear@yahoo.com schrieb:
> > Not sure if this is a dumb question, but
> > if I start a masters degree in computer science, will the classes
> > require that I write in C++ and Java ? Since those are more common,
> > that's what I might expect. Too bad because I am really starting to
> > like Ruby alot.
>
> I'm loving java and I think it's a good thing to get to know about a
> couple of programming languages! Learning something about java o c++
> even can help you advance your ruby!
>
> Jonathan

greg.kujawa

6/29/2006 12:29:00 PM

0

Jonathan Heinen wrote:
> Learning something about java o c++
> even can help you advance your ruby!
>

Maybe I am a bit of a Ruby zealot, but I would argue the converse of
this statement. When I think of Java and C++ I think of more
complications in terms of syntactical hoops I have to jump through,
rules and gotchas that force me into certain peculiar ways to do
things, etc. With Ruby I am a lot freer and happier!

Dan Bernier

6/29/2006 12:40:00 PM

0

surfunbear@yahoo.com wrote:
> I was put off by the Java certification exams
> which is about memorizing API's and things that seem
> to go against the type of academic way of learning

The Java cert. exams aren't for learning Java, they're a way to tell
other software people (who might hire you) that you know Java well. I
took the SCJP after programming Java for a few years -- it filled out
the corners of my knowledge. I learned the things I hadn't seen in
practice yet, which was a considerable amount. I recommend the SCJP
for people to complete their core Java knowledge, but I'd never
recommend it to someone just starting Java.

> The first
> level Java certification exam maybe wasn't so bad (SCJP), but I started
> looking at what follows for the SCWCD and it seemed even less
> appealing.

I haven't looked much at the SCWCD, but the Developer exam is much more
practical -- you actually develop a working system, submit it to the
board, and explain your design choices. Definitely not just
memorization.

> The other thing about studying j2ee, is I felt I
> was learning
> more about infrastructure than things more directly related to
> programming...

Well, it *is* the Enterprise edition. ;-) Much of it is built for
working in that kind of environment, not just one piece of software.
Working/studying at that level, you'll learn more about networking and
architecture than programming topics.

> I could do something else with
> java unrelated to J2ee, but there's so many java requirements with j2ee
> and all to land a job.

Right on. There's some fun stuff going on with Java...check out
http://www.proc..., an OSS Java-based graphics programming tool
that some people are doing neat things with.

> The other thing I like about ruby is the perl like way of processing
> text and pattern matching which lads to very effective string
> manipulation. I aloso really like the built in hashing.

Java has no built-in hashes & such, which posed no problem for
me...until I got used to Ruby's. Now it's a pain to go back to the
Collections API that I once liked so much. But that's nothing compared
to the class casting...

> I may have to go back to Java to get employment, but I'm not sure how
> that would pan out, which Java API I would end up working with, or if I
> would be happy with that situation or not.

Java will get you a paying job, for sure. You don't need to know every
API (I doubt anyone could, anyway) -- but I'd focus on knowing the
Servlet API (plus Struts or JSF), XML processing, and JDBC. Extra
credit for SOAP/Web services. If you know those, landing a job
shouldn't be *too* hard. Although, many corporations in my part of the
US outsource programmer jobs, and keep technical leads and architects
in-house. I think the ones who outsourced first are starting to bring
back in-house programmers, but at my last job, they were just starting
to outsource last year, so they probably have a few years left of it.

> I am fairly ignorant of the issues
> involved in running a web server and need to find out more.

I have a friend who tried this, and got hacked within a few days of
launch. Investigate thoroghly...

Daniel Schüle

6/29/2006 9:02:00 PM

0

gregarican schrieb:
> Jonathan Heinen wrote:
>> Learning something about java o c++
>> even can help you advance your ruby!
>>
>
> Maybe I am a bit of a Ruby zealot, but I would argue the converse of
> this statement. When I think of Java and C++ I think of more
> complications in terms of syntactical hoops I have to jump through,
> rules and gotchas that force me into certain peculiar ways to do
> things, etc. With Ruby I am a lot freer and happier!

it's more about using right tool for right thing

if you are programming a microcontroller you would be
even happier with C .. if you can some assembler you would
be tempted to objdump generated exe to see what compiler
did for you. You would grasp how things are done at this level.

If you are on the edge between hardware/software worlds you would
be happy with VHDL or Verilog. You could achieve datarates on FPGAs
which no microcontroller (or DSP) can give you.

Knowing more languages (for different domains) allow you to
compare techniques.

greg.kujawa

6/29/2006 10:59:00 PM

0

I hear you. I definitely don't choose one language for any and all
tasks. But this being said, I _still_ don't see how learning Java or
C++ could help improve someone's programming abilities in Ruby.
Learning Smalltalk perhaps. Maybe learning Haskell or Scheme at a
certain regard. But Java and C++ ... I just don't see the parallel. I'm
not saying I wouldn't use them for a certain task. For example, there
was an PDA project I was working on where Ruby just wasn't a good fit.
So I had to delve into the depths of J2ME. It got the job done. But I
didn't find an outlet to channel what I had learned into Ruby. Maybe
that's just me I guess :-/

Schüle Daniel wrote:
> gregarican schrieb:
> > Jonathan Heinen wrote:
> >> Learning something about java o c++
> >> even can help you advance your ruby!
> >>
> >
> > Maybe I am a bit of a Ruby zealot, but I would argue the converse of
> > this statement. When I think of Java and C++ I think of more
> > complications in terms of syntactical hoops I have to jump through,
> > rules and gotchas that force me into certain peculiar ways to do
> > things, etc. With Ruby I am a lot freer and happier!
>
> it's more about using right tool for right thing
>
> if you are programming a microcontroller you would be
> even happier with C .. if you can some assembler you would
> be tempted to objdump generated exe to see what compiler
> did for you. You would grasp how things are done at this level.
>
> If you are on the edge between hardware/software worlds you would
> be happy with VHDL or Verilog. You could achieve datarates on FPGAs
> which no microcontroller (or DSP) can give you.
>
> Knowing more languages (for different domains) allow you to
> compare techniques.

Timothy Goddard

6/30/2006 7:18:00 AM

0

I agree that beyond the basic programming principles C++ and Ruby are
very different. The exciting thing about knowing both is building C(++)
code and accessing it from Ruby :). You get a beautiful, clean language
for the higher levels of control and can do the dirty work quickly in
compiled code.

gregarican wrote:
> I hear you. I definitely don't choose one language for any and all
> tasks. But this being said, I _still_ don't see how learning Java or
> C++ could help improve someone's programming abilities in Ruby.
> Learning Smalltalk perhaps. Maybe learning Haskell or Scheme at a
> certain regard. But Java and C++ ... I just don't see the parallel. I'm
> not saying I wouldn't use them for a certain task. For example, there
> was an PDA project I was working on where Ruby just wasn't a good fit.
> So I had to delve into the depths of J2ME. It got the job done. But I
> didn't find an outlet to channel what I had learned into Ruby. Maybe
> that's just me I guess :-/
>
> Schüle Daniel wrote:
> > gregarican schrieb:
> > > Jonathan Heinen wrote:
> > >> Learning something about java o c++
> > >> even can help you advance your ruby!
> > >>
> > >
> > > Maybe I am a bit of a Ruby zealot, but I would argue the converse of
> > > this statement. When I think of Java and C++ I think of more
> > > complications in terms of syntactical hoops I have to jump through,
> > > rules and gotchas that force me into certain peculiar ways to do
> > > things, etc. With Ruby I am a lot freer and happier!
> >
> > it's more about using right tool for right thing
> >
> > if you are programming a microcontroller you would be
> > even happier with C .. if you can some assembler you would
> > be tempted to objdump generated exe to see what compiler
> > did for you. You would grasp how things are done at this level.
> >
> > If you are on the edge between hardware/software worlds you would
> > be happy with VHDL or Verilog. You could achieve datarates on FPGAs
> > which no microcontroller (or DSP) can give you.
> >
> > Knowing more languages (for different domains) allow you to
> > compare techniques.

surf

6/30/2006 9:32:00 AM

0


does that work good with GNU or a free C++ compiler ?


Timothy Goddard wrote:
> I agree that beyond the basic programming principles C++ and Ruby are
> very different. The exciting thing about knowing both is building C(++)
> code and accessing it from Ruby :). You get a beautiful, clean language
> for the higher levels of control and can do the dirty work quickly in
> compiled code.
>
> gregarican wrote:
> > I hear you. I definitely don't choose one language for any and all
> > tasks. But this being said, I _still_ don't see how learning Java or
> > C++ could help improve someone's programming abilities in Ruby.
> > Learning Smalltalk perhaps. Maybe learning Haskell or Scheme at a
> > certain regard. But Java and C++ ... I just don't see the parallel. I'm
> > not saying I wouldn't use them for a certain task. For example, there
> > was an PDA project I was working on where Ruby just wasn't a good fit.
> > So I had to delve into the depths of J2ME. It got the job done. But I
> > didn't find an outlet to channel what I had learned into Ruby. Maybe
> > that's just me I guess :-/
> >
> > Schüle Daniel wrote:
> > > gregarican schrieb:
> > > > Jonathan Heinen wrote:
> > > >> Learning something about java o c++
> > > >> even can help you advance your ruby!
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Maybe I am a bit of a Ruby zealot, but I would argue the converse of
> > > > this statement. When I think of Java and C++ I think of more
> > > > complications in terms of syntactical hoops I have to jump through,
> > > > rules and gotchas that force me into certain peculiar ways to do
> > > > things, etc. With Ruby I am a lot freer and happier!
> > >
> > > it's more about using right tool for right thing
> > >
> > > if you are programming a microcontroller you would be
> > > even happier with C .. if you can some assembler you would
> > > be tempted to objdump generated exe to see what compiler
> > > did for you. You would grasp how things are done at this level.
> > >
> > > If you are on the edge between hardware/software worlds you would
> > > be happy with VHDL or Verilog. You could achieve datarates on FPGAs
> > > which no microcontroller (or DSP) can give you.
> > >
> > > Knowing more languages (for different domains) allow you to
> > > compare techniques.

Timothy Goddard

7/1/2006 2:32:00 AM

0

The functions that you access from Ruby have to be standard C
functions, so it will work with any C compiler. To use a C++ compiler
you'll need to use extern C.

surfunbear@yahoo.com wrote:
> does that work good with GNU or a free C++ compiler ?
>
>
> Timothy Goddard wrote:
> > I agree that beyond the basic programming principles C++ and Ruby are
> > very different. The exciting thing about knowing both is building C(++)
> > code and accessing it from Ruby :). You get a beautiful, clean language
> > for the higher levels of control and can do the dirty work quickly in
> > compiled code.
> >
> > gregarican wrote:
> > > I hear you. I definitely don't choose one language for any and all
> > > tasks. But this being said, I _still_ don't see how learning Java or
> > > C++ could help improve someone's programming abilities in Ruby.
> > > Learning Smalltalk perhaps. Maybe learning Haskell or Scheme at a
> > > certain regard. But Java and C++ ... I just don't see the parallel. I'm
> > > not saying I wouldn't use them for a certain task. For example, there
> > > was an PDA project I was working on where Ruby just wasn't a good fit.
> > > So I had to delve into the depths of J2ME. It got the job done. But I
> > > didn't find an outlet to channel what I had learned into Ruby. Maybe
> > > that's just me I guess :-/
> > >
> > > Schüle Daniel wrote:
> > > > gregarican schrieb:
> > > > > Jonathan Heinen wrote:
> > > > >> Learning something about java o c++
> > > > >> even can help you advance your ruby!
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe I am a bit of a Ruby zealot, but I would argue the converse of
> > > > > this statement. When I think of Java and C++ I think of more
> > > > > complications in terms of syntactical hoops I have to jump through,
> > > > > rules and gotchas that force me into certain peculiar ways to do
> > > > > things, etc. With Ruby I am a lot freer and happier!
> > > >
> > > > it's more about using right tool for right thing
> > > >
> > > > if you are programming a microcontroller you would be
> > > > even happier with C .. if you can some assembler you would
> > > > be tempted to objdump generated exe to see what compiler
> > > > did for you. You would grasp how things are done at this level.
> > > >
> > > > If you are on the edge between hardware/software worlds you would
> > > > be happy with VHDL or Verilog. You could achieve datarates on FPGAs
> > > > which no microcontroller (or DSP) can give you.
> > > >
> > > > Knowing more languages (for different domains) allow you to
> > > > compare techniques.

asj

7/2/2006 7:49:00 AM

0

surfunbear@yahoo.com wrote:
> I have nothing against java per se. However, I have not felt motivated
> to study j2ee.

Are you certain what Java EE is? Java EE is more than EJB you know....

It's hibernate/struts/JDO/JMS/Spring/etc,etc,etc

Unlike Ruby where the choices you have are limited, Java EE is so vast
you get to pick the best things for you....

This might be more your style perhaps...it's Groovy on Rails (or
Grails):

http://grails.codehau...

Haven't tried it (when not doing Java ME mobile stuff I usually stick
to Struts), but have heard some good things about it...