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comp.lang.ruby

How slow could ruby be compared to Python or Perl?

Xiaozhong

3/31/2006 4:18:00 AM

This might be a stupid question, but I really wonder if ruby is much
slower than python and perl.
21 Answers

Konstantin Levinski

3/31/2006 5:18:00 AM

0

It _could_ be very slow, if you set out to make it so. Othervise, they
are comparable in speed.
http://shootout.alioth.d...

Isaac Gouy

4/4/2006 3:17:00 PM

0

Konstantin Levinski wrote:
> It _could_ be very slow, if you set out to make it so. Othervise, they
> are comparable in speed.
> http://shootout.alioth.d...

Perl & Ruby
http://shootout.alioth.d...gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=perl&lang2=ruby

Python & Ruby
http://shootout.alioth.d...gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=python&lang2=ruby

Psyco & Ruby
http://shootout.alioth.d...gp4sandbox/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=psyco&lang2=yarv

Austin Ziegler

4/4/2006 4:15:00 PM

0

On 3/31/06, sullivanz.pku@gmail.com <sullivanz.pku@gmail.com> wrote:> This might be a stupid question, but I really wonder if ruby is much> slower than python and perl.Try it. And ignore anyone who tells you to look at the utterly uselessAlioth shootout. It doesn't model anything real-world and doesn'tactually tell you anything about performance for your problems.I haven't checked in a while, but they weren't very honest about theiraims last time I checked, either. It's simply a matter ofself-promotion and comparison for Inane Gullibles.-austin--Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com * Alternate: austin@halostatue.ca

Isaac Gouy

4/4/2006 6:10:00 PM

0

Austin Ziegler wrote:
> On 3/31/06, sullivanz.pku@gmail.com <sullivanz.pku@gmail.com> wrote:
> > This might be a stupid question, but I really wonder if ruby is much
> > slower than python and perl.
>
> Try it. And ignore anyone who tells you to look at the utterly useless
> Alioth shootout. It doesn't model anything real-world and doesn't
> actually tell you anything about performance for your problems.
>
> I haven't checked in a while, but they weren't very honest about their
> aims last time I checked, either. It's simply a matter of
> self-promotion and comparison for Inane Gullibles.
>
> -austin
> --
> Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com
> * Alternate: austin@halostatue.ca

"I haven't checked in a while..."
Then your comments would apply to the Alioth shootout in... 2004?

There's nothing wrong with saying how little can be learned from
measuring small programs, but saying don't look suggests there's
something to be hidden.

Isaac Gouy

4/4/2006 7:10:00 PM

0


Austin Ziegler wrote:
> On 4/4/06, Isaac Gouy <igouy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Austin Ziegler wrote:
> > > On 3/31/06, sullivanz.pku@gmail.com <sullivanz.pku@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > This might be a stupid question, but I really wonder if ruby is much
> > > > slower than python and perl.
> > > Try it. And ignore anyone who tells you to look at the utterly useless
> > > Alioth shootout. It doesn't model anything real-world and doesn't
> > > actually tell you anything about performance for your problems.
> > >
> > > I haven't checked in a while, but they weren't very honest about their
> > > aims last time I checked, either. It's simply a matter of
> > > self-promotion and comparison for Inane Gullibles.
> > "I haven't checked in a while..."
> > Then your comments would apply to the Alioth shootout in... 2004?
>
> 2005. I avoid the shootout like the plague, until you pop up and
> pretend that your pet project has any relevance to anything.
>
> > There's nothing wrong with saying how little can be learned from
> > measuring small programs, but saying don't look suggests there's
> > something to be hidden.
>
> No, saying "don't look" says that your aims are bogus, your tests are
> worse, your validation is nonsensical to nonexistent, and your
> presentation is dishonest.
>
> Saying "don't look" says that the Alioth shootout isn't worth the
> server space it takes up. It's certainly not worth the amount of
> pimping you do for it.
>
> -austin
> --
> Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com
> * Alternate: austin@halostatue.ca

And you believe all that without even looking - truly remarkable!

(I suppose there are people who make judgements about Ruby without
looking.)

Gregory Brown

4/4/2006 7:37:00 PM

0

On 4/4/06, Isaac Gouy <igouy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Austin Ziegler wrote:
> > Saying "don't look" says that the Alioth shootout isn't worth the
> > server space it takes up. It's certainly not worth the amount of
> > pimping you do for it.
> >
> > -austin
> > --
> > Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com
> > * Alternate: austin@halostatue.ca
>
> And you believe all that without even looking - truly remarkable!
>
> (I suppose there are people who make judgements about Ruby without
> looking.)

Can we avoid this shootout thing again. Anyone interested in the
history of this thread can find plenty on the archive, we don't need
to rehash it.

That having been said, comparing speed is a tough job. I'll
re-iterate the standard advice which seems to work to the OP. Try
just writing whatever you want in ruby first... then if you find
bottle necks, try to optimize them, and if you can't, C extensions are
always an option for the really computation heavy stuff. I'm not sure
i've seen anyone switch to perl or python because of speed, because
the gain is going to be something small if anything.

So... worry about performance when it becomes an issue. Or... if you
know how to optimize perl or python to make it sing, maybe go ahead
and use them. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure you'll find that speed
hangups can be avoided when needed in Ruby.

Austin Ziegler

4/4/2006 7:41:00 PM

0

On 4/4/06, Isaac Gouy <igouy@yahoo.com> wrote:> Austin Ziegler wrote:>> 2005. I avoid the shootout like the plague, until you pop up and>> pretend that your pet project has any relevance to anything. No,>> saying "don't look" says that your aims are bogus, your tests are>> worse, your validation is nonsensical to nonexistent, and your>> presentation is dishonest.>>>> Saying "don't look" says that the Alioth shootout isn't worth the>> server space it takes up. It's certainly not worth the amount of>> pimping you do for it.> And you believe all that without even looking - truly remarkable!>> (I suppose there are people who make judgements about Ruby without> looking.)Isaac,I see you're as bad at reading as ever. I didn't say that I haven'tlooked. You know better than that. I haven't looked recently. After theinitial round of accurate criticism (with evidence) that I unleashed onyou well over a year ago, I checked the *next* time you pimped yourworthless nonsense (about three months later).You hadn't fixed a single damned thing.And the next time (again, about three months later)? You *still* hadn'tfixed a single damned thing.Obviously, over time, you have exhibited an interest in pimping yourshootout, but not fixing your methodology or presentation.The issues with the Alioth shootout cannot be fixed cosmetically.There's something rotten at the *core* of this project that suggests itshould be cut loose and repudiated by anyone who has ever supported it.You're as capable as I am at digging in the archives for my previouscriticisms. Show me that you've fixed the core problems, not just putmakeup on a pig's arse and called it beautiful.-austin--Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com * Alternate: austin@halostatue.ca

Robert Dober

4/4/2006 7:57:00 PM

0

On 4/4/06, Isaac Gouy <igouy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Austin Ziegler wrote:
> > On 4/4/06, Isaac Gouy <igouy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Austin Ziegler wrote:
> > > > On 3/31/06, sullivanz.pku@gmail.com <sullivanz.pku@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > This might be a stupid question, but I really wonder if ruby is
> much
> > > > > slower than python and perl.
> > > > Try it. And ignore anyone who tells you to look at the utterly
> useless
> > > > Alioth shootout. It doesn't model anything real-world and doesn't
> > > > actually tell you anything about performance for your problems.
> > > >
> > > > I haven't checked in a while, but they weren't very honest about
> their
> > > > aims last time I checked, either. It's simply a matter of
> > > > self-promotion and comparison for Inane Gullibles.
> > > "I haven't checked in a while..."
> > > Then your comments would apply to the Alioth shootout in... 2004?
> >
> > 2005. I avoid the shootout like the plague, until you pop up and
> > pretend that your pet project has any relevance to anything.
> >
> > > There's nothing wrong with saying how little can be learned from
> > > measuring small programs, but saying don't look suggests there's
> > > something to be hidden.
> >
> > No, saying "don't look" says that your aims are bogus, your tests are
> > worse, your validation is nonsensical to nonexistent, and your
> > presentation is dishonest.
> >
> > Saying "don't look" says that the Alioth shootout isn't worth the
> > server space it takes up. It's certainly not worth the amount of
> > pimping you do for it.
> >
> > -austin
> > --
> > Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com
> > * Alternate: austin@halostatue.ca
>
> And you believe all that without even looking - truly remarkable!
>
> (I suppose there are people who make judgements about Ruby without
> looking.)
>
>
> I understand that you are upset, but I *had* a look and I think I have
enough reason to consider the shootout irrelevant:
First, everybody can contribute ones program, like that, so what if I want
ruby to look bad, well easy enough, there comes one example into mind (c.f.
http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/debian/benchmark.php?test=binarytrees&...),
the program does not even run.
Second I have often seen ruby1.9 being used, futile ( so I have my two
favorite words together "futile" and "irrelevant" ;)
to explain that 1.9 is not to be used for such a thing.
I checked a different program, sorry cannot give you the link, from the
shootout, it was written for slow performance period.
And last but not least, performance rarely matters and when it *really*
matters you need a change of magnitude.
And for that to accomplish you have to extend ruby in C or interface with C,
which is pretty easy compared to python or - even worse - perl.

So I honestly understand why Austin is upset although, I agree with you,
scientifcly speaking his attitude is wrong.
But I believe his conclusions are correct nontheless.

Cheers
Robert


--
Deux choses sont infinies : l'univers et la bêtise humaine ; en ce qui
concerne l'univers, je n'en ai pas acquis la certitude absolue.

- Albert Einstein

Tanner Burson

4/4/2006 8:09:00 PM

0

On 4/4/06, Isaac Gouy <igouy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Austin Ziegler wrote:
> > On 4/4/06, Isaac Gouy <igouy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Austin Ziegler wrote:
> > > > On 3/31/06, sullivanz.pku@gmail.com <sullivanz.pku@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > This might be a stupid question, but I really wonder if ruby is
> much
> > > > > slower than python and perl.
> > > > Try it. And ignore anyone who tells you to look at the utterly
> useless
> > > > Alioth shootout. It doesn't model anything real-world and doesn't
> > > > actually tell you anything about performance for your problems.
> > > >
> > > > I haven't checked in a while, but they weren't very honest about
> their
> > > > aims last time I checked, either. It's simply a matter of
> > > > self-promotion and comparison for Inane Gullibles.
> > > "I haven't checked in a while..."
> > > Then your comments would apply to the Alioth shootout in... 2004?
> >
> > 2005. I avoid the shootout like the plague, until you pop up and
> > pretend that your pet project has any relevance to anything.
> >
> > > There's nothing wrong with saying how little can be learned from
> > > measuring small programs, but saying don't look suggests there's
> > > something to be hidden.
> >
> > No, saying "don't look" says that your aims are bogus, your tests are
> > worse, your validation is nonsensical to nonexistent, and your
> > presentation is dishonest.
> >
> > Saying "don't look" says that the Alioth shootout isn't worth the
> > server space it takes up. It's certainly not worth the amount of
> > pimping you do for it.
> >
> > -austin
> > --
> > Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com
> > * Alternate: austin@halostatue.ca
>
> And you believe all that without even looking - truly remarkable!
>
> (I suppose there are people who make judgements about Ruby without
> looking.)


I've looked at your site, nearly every time you've come in posting specific
benchmarks about something or other. I think its current incarnation is by
far the worst. You use certain performance and code characteristics, but
instead of quantifying the actual values in the comparisons (only in the
individual listings) you list them as, X is Y times better/worse than Z.
That tells me next to nothing. 1.1 times faster means very little at 10ms,
but quite a lot at 1hr. While I don't always agree with Austin's attitude
towards this subject, I do agree that the site is rarely useful, and often
causes people to mis-represent a given statistic.


--
===Tanner Burson===
tanner.burson@gmail.com
http://tanner... <---Might even work one day...

Isaac Gouy

4/5/2006 12:19:00 AM

0


Robert Dober wrote:
> On 4/4/06, Isaac Gouy <igouy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Austin Ziegler wrote:
> > > On 4/4/06, Isaac Gouy <igouy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > Austin Ziegler wrote:
> > > > > On 3/31/06, sullivanz.pku@gmail.com <sullivanz.pku@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > This might be a stupid question, but I really wonder if ruby is
> > much
> > > > > > slower than python and perl.
> > > > > Try it. And ignore anyone who tells you to look at the utterly
> > useless
> > > > > Alioth shootout. It doesn't model anything real-world and doesn't
> > > > > actually tell you anything about performance for your problems.
> > > > >
> > > > > I haven't checked in a while, but they weren't very honest about
> > their
> > > > > aims last time I checked, either. It's simply a matter of
> > > > > self-promotion and comparison for Inane Gullibles.
> > > > "I haven't checked in a while..."
> > > > Then your comments would apply to the Alioth shootout in... 2004?
> > >
> > > 2005. I avoid the shootout like the plague, until you pop up and
> > > pretend that your pet project has any relevance to anything.
> > >
> > > > There's nothing wrong with saying how little can be learned from
> > > > measuring small programs, but saying don't look suggests there's
> > > > something to be hidden.
> > >
> > > No, saying "don't look" says that your aims are bogus, your tests are
> > > worse, your validation is nonsensical to nonexistent, and your
> > > presentation is dishonest.
> > >
> > > Saying "don't look" says that the Alioth shootout isn't worth the
> > > server space it takes up. It's certainly not worth the amount of
> > > pimping you do for it.
> > >
> > > -austin
> > > --
> > > Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com
> > > * Alternate: austin@halostatue.ca
> >
> > And you believe all that without even looking - truly remarkable!
> >
> > (I suppose there are people who make judgements about Ruby without
> > looking.)
> >
> >
> > I understand that you are upset, but I *had* a look and I think I have
> enough reason to consider the shootout irrelevant:

> First, everybody can contribute ones program, like that, so what if I want
> ruby to look bad, well easy enough,

Until someone who wants to make Ruby look good contributes a better
program ;-)


> there comes one example into mind (c.f.
> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/debian/benchmark.php?test=binarytrees&...),
> the program does not even run.

Thank you, I can see that program has been measured with too short a
timeout.
The same program is shown here
http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=binarytrees&lang=rub...


> Second I have often seen ruby1.9 being used, futile ( so I have my two
> favorite words together "futile" and "irrelevant" ;)
> to explain that 1.9 is not to be used for such a thing.

The measurements on Gentoo : Intel are made for Ruby 1.8.4
http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=ruby&...


> I checked a different program, sorry cannot give you the link, from the
> shootout, it was written for slow performance period.

Standard answer: contribute better programs.


> And last but not least, performance rarely matters and when it *really*
> matters you need a change of magnitude.
> And for that to accomplish you have to extend ruby in C or interface with C,
> which is pretty easy compared to python or - even worse - perl.

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/miscfile.php?file=benchmarking&title=Flawed%20...

>
> So I honestly understand why Austin is upset although, I agree with you,
> scientifcly speaking his attitude is wrong.
> But I believe his conclusions are correct nontheless.
>
> Cheers
> Robert
>
>
> --
> Deux choses sont infinies : l'univers et la bêtise humaine ; en ce qui
> concerne l'univers, je n'en ai pas acquis la certitude absolue.
>
> - Albert Einstein
>
> ------=_Part_20255_25604588.1144180637053--