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comp.programming

[OT] Babage and computer history

Bill Cunningham

7/9/2015 6:21:00 PM

Does anyone know what would ne the newsgroup to post concerning coputer
history specifically Babbage's difference engine? alt.computers looks
"unused" and full of spam. I would appreciate it.

Bill
15 Answers

kenobi

7/10/2015 3:34:00 PM

0

W dniu czwartek, 9 lipca 2015 20:20:44 UTC+2 uzytkownik Bill Cunningham napisal:
> Does anyone know what would ne the newsgroup to post concerning coputer
> history specifically Babbage's difference engine? alt.computers looks
> "unused" and full of spam. I would appreciate it.
>
> Bill

dont know,
at all which comp or related groups of usenet
are still mostly populated/active? (I got no easy list of them and coud add some )

LudovicoVan

7/10/2015 3:51:00 PM

0

On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 7:20:44 PM UTC+1, Bill Cunningham wrote:

> Does anyone know what would ne the newsgroup to post concerning coputer
> history specifically Babbage's difference engine? alt.computers looks
> "unused" and full of spam. I would appreciate it.

It depends on what you mean by history. I'd say comp.programming is OK if your interest is technical (how it worked, the technical conditions and challenges, etc.), but you could try comp.misc if you interest is genuinely historical (socio-political situation, anecdotes, etc.). Otherwise, what is your interest?

Julio

Bill Cunningham

7/10/2015 6:23:00 PM

0


"Julio Di Egidio" <julio@diegidio.name> wrote in message
news:d5f23f7b-21fe-4080-80f9-185586f2fc70@googlegroups.com...
On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 7:20:44 PM UTC+1, Bill Cunningham wrote:

> Does anyone know what would ne the newsgroup to post concerning coputer
> history specifically Babbage's difference engine? alt.computers looks
> "unused" and full of spam. I would appreciate it.

It depends on what you mean by history. I'd say comp.programming is OK if
your interest is technical (how it worked, the technical conditions and
challenges, etc.), but you could try comp.misc if you interest is genuinely
historical (socio-political situation, anecdotes, etc.). Otherwise, what is
your interest?

Julio
http://www.computerhistory.or...

I came across this site that said Babbage never himself got to make is
difference or analytical engine. That was not my understanding. I thught he
had a machine and was working with Ada lovelace who was programming. She was
of course, a mathematician.
I am wanting to get straight on history. How were they working together
if he had no machine. Computer history interests me in *all* facets. Early
machine too were calculators and the "computer" was the person.
Hope that's clear.

Bill

Ben Bacarisse

7/10/2015 9:04:00 PM

0

"Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> writes:
<snip>
> http://www.computerhistory.or...
>
> I came across this site that said Babbage never himself got to make is
> difference or analytical engine. That was not my understanding. I thught he
> had a machine and was working with Ada lovelace who was programming.

The site you link to matches my recollection of the story and is from an
authoritative source. The Wikipedia page links to the science museum
that has pretty much the same story so I'm not sure sue what Usenet can
add. Other than someone having a newly discovered and properly
authenticated Babbage-built difference engine in their basement, why
would to believe what someone might post over two well-respected museum
sites?

<snip>
--
Ben.

LudovicoVan

7/11/2015 2:50:00 AM

0

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 10:03:54 PM UTC+1, Ben Bacarisse wrote:

> Other than someone having a newly discovered and properly
> authenticated Babbage-built difference engine in their basement,

That's quite unlikely: it was as big as a football field...

Julio

LudovicoVan

7/11/2015 3:11:00 AM

0

On Friday, July 10, 2015 at 7:22:42 PM UTC+1, Bill Cunningham wrote:
> "Julio Di Egidio" <j***@diegidio.name> wrote in message
> news:d5f23f7b-21fe-4080-80f9-185586f2fc70@googlegroups.com...
> On Thursday, July 9, 2015 at 7:20:44 PM UTC+1, Bill Cunningham wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know what would ne the newsgroup to post concerning coputer
> > history specifically Babbage's difference engine? alt.computers looks
> > "unused" and full of spam. I would appreciate it.
>
> It depends on what you mean by history. I'd say comp.programming is OK if
> your interest is technical (how it worked, the technical conditions and
> challenges, etc.), but you could try comp.misc if you interest is genuinely
> historical (socio-political situation, anecdotes, etc.). Otherwise, what is
> your interest?
>
> Julio
> http://www.computerhistory.or...
>
> I came across this site that said Babbage never himself got to make is
> difference or analytical engine. That was not my understanding. I thught he
> had a machine and was working with Ada lovelace who was programming. She was
> of course, a mathematician.
> I am wanting to get straight on history. How were they working together
> if he had no machine. Computer history interests me in *all* facets.

Ada Lovelace is considered the first programmer in history for her ideas on programming and programmable calculators and for the first explicit use of algorithms. But she used the calculators that were available at the time to do her experiments, not any programmable ones. Babbage, who was an engineer, designed the first programmable, i.e. general purpose calculator in history: what we would call a "computer". But it was mechanico-hydraulic... as big as football stadium: it was never funded. If you want to know more, go to the library.

> Early
> machine too were calculators and the "computer" was the person.
> Hope that's clear.

That's wrong: the person is the person and the machine is the machine. A general purpose computer is a heck of a handy machine, but it does not beat neither the abacus, nor the thermostat, and not even a good solid stick at intelligence tests.

Julio

Bill Cunningham

7/11/2015 3:16:00 AM

0


"Ben Bacarisse" <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> wrote in message
news:87d1zzwwqx.fsf@bsb.me.uk...

> The site you link to matches my recollection of the story and is from an
> authoritative source. The Wikipedia page links to the science museum
> that has pretty much the same story so I'm not sure sue what Usenet can
> add. Other than someone having a newly discovered and properly
> authenticated Babbage-built difference engine in their basement, why
> would to believe what someone might post over two well-respected museum
> sites?
http://www.computerhistory.org/babbage...

The "Final vindication" seems to clear things up. I guess he built a "small"
machine. That must have been what Ada was working with. I have read they
worked together. The larger machine I guess he never saw. Ok then.

Bill

LudovicoVan

7/11/2015 3:20:00 AM

0

On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 4:16:27 AM UTC+1, Bill Cunningham wrote:
> "Ben Bacarisse" <b***@bsb.me.uk> wrote in message
> news:87d1zzwwqx.fsf@bsb.me.uk...
>
> > The site you link to matches my recollection of the story and is from an
> > authoritative source. The Wikipedia page links to the science museum
> > that has pretty much the same story so I'm not sure sue what Usenet can
> > add. Other than someone having a newly discovered and properly
> > authenticated Babbage-built difference engine in their basement, why
> > would to believe what someone might post over two well-respected museum
> > sites?
> http://www.computerhistory.org/babbage...
>
> The "Final vindication" seems to clear things up. I guess he built a "small"
> machine. That must have been what Ada was working with. I have read they
> worked together. The larger machine I guess he never saw. Ok then.

OK you are an idiot?? Happy you...

Julio

Bill Cunningham

7/11/2015 6:03:00 PM

0


"Julio Di Egidio" <julio@diegidio.name> wrote in message
news:ddc7deef-df16-430b-8739-6f35c4715c1c@googlegroups.com...

Ada Lovelace is considered the first programmer in history for her ideas on
programming and programmable calculators and for the first explicit use of
algorithms. But she used the calculators that were available at the time to
do her experiments, not any programmable ones. Babbage, who was an
engineer, designed the first programmable, i.e. general purpose calculator
in history: what we would call a "computer". But it was
mechanico-hydraulic... as big as football stadium: it was never funded. If
you want to know more, go to the library.

> Early
> machine too were calculators and the "computer" was the person.
> Hope that's clear.

That's wrong: the person is the person and the machine is the machine. A
general purpose computer is a heck of a handy machine, but it does not beat
neither the abacus, nor the thermostat, and not even a good solid stick at
intelligence tests.

Ok the purpose if not clear of this post was just this; discussion of things
maybe unknown. Now I have read what I've read. Be it this museum site or
another site. The library, or you or another. Now therefore, who's right or
wrong. There's either a lot of opinion on this. Or questionable facts.

What you say about Ada Lovelace seems pretty universal.

Bill

Ben Bacarisse

7/11/2015 10:19:00 PM

0

"Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> writes:

> "Ben Bacarisse" <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> wrote in message
> news:87d1zzwwqx.fsf@bsb.me.uk...
>
>> The site you link to matches my recollection of the story and is from an
>> authoritative source. The Wikipedia page links to the science museum
>> that has pretty much the same story so I'm not sure sue what Usenet can
>> add. Other than someone having a newly discovered and properly
>> authenticated Babbage-built difference engine in their basement, why
>> would to believe what someone might post over two well-respected museum
>> sites?
> http://www.computerhistory.org/babbage...
>
> The "Final vindication" seems to clear things up. I guess he built a "small"
> machine. That must have been what Ada was working with.

Programming is not about machines -- it's about procedures. As far as I
know, Ada Lovelace never used any machine of any sort for programming.

<snip>
--
Ben.