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comp.lang.ruby

Re: Possible Ruby-centric NASA SBIR area

mtobis

2/28/2006 4:31:00 PM

There's already an open source competitior to matlab: python plus
matplotlib , sometimes known as pylab.

Sigh. It's really unfortunate that the Ruby/Python contention has
leaked into science. I had thought Python was sufficiently ahead in
terms of available libraries that it wouldn't come up, but maybe not.
(I would think that f2py alone was decisive.)

However, the issues Bill raises are very much the right ones, and we
should agree that these languages can be used in combination with very
large computing resources to open up new and better ways to do
scientific programming.

Michael Tobis
http://geosci.uchicago....

9 Answers

Bil Kleb

2/28/2006 9:10:00 PM

0

mtobis@gmail.com wrote:
> There's already an open source competitior to matlab: python plus
> matplotlib , sometimes known as pylab.
>
> Sigh. It's really unfortunate that the Ruby/Python contention has
> leaked into science.

As I said, I wrote the SBIR topic for selfish reasons: our team
uses Ruby and we have need for tools I originally outlined. No
contention intended, just bias?

Regards,
--
Bil
http://fun3d.lar...

ptkwt

2/28/2006 11:55:00 PM

0

In article <du2e63$rp0$1@vilya.larc.nasa.gov>,
Bil Kleb <Bil.Kleb@NASA.gov> wrote:
>mtobis@gmail.com wrote:
>> There's already an open source competitior to matlab: python plus
>> matplotlib , sometimes known as pylab.
>>
>> Sigh. It's really unfortunate that the Ruby/Python contention has
>> leaked into science.
>
>As I said, I wrote the SBIR topic for selfish reasons: our team
>uses Ruby and we have need for tools I originally outlined. No
>contention intended, just bias?
>


Bil,

Maybe I misunderstood your original post in this thread: Are you looking for
people to submit SBIR applications for funding to develop Ruby applications
which fall into your list of needed apps?

I don't understand the SBIR process much, but I'm guessing that you (as an
'agent' in a government agency) are asking for people to submit proposals for
SBIR funding from your agency - am I right? Can you offer any more details
about the process?

Phil

Robert Feldt

3/1/2006 8:13:00 AM

0

And if someone knows (so that I don't have to delve to deeply into the
sbir site ;)):

Can only US-only projects be funded?

I have a large group of Ruby-knowledgeable students who could take on
a number of porjects within the scope of such an SBIR. And they would
just love to do it for NASA... :)

Bill, can you please indicate to this list if/when you actually get an
ok for this?

Thanks,

Robert Feldt


Bil Kleb

3/1/2006 10:29:00 AM

0

Robert Feldt wrote:
>
> Can only US-only projects be funded?

Yes, I believe that is the case. The program is designed
to help US-based small businesses get their legs.

> I have a large group of Ruby-knowledgeable students who could take on
> a number of porjects within the scope of such an SBIR. And they would
> just love to do it for NASA... :)

We'd love to have the work, but paying for it across U.S. borders
would be excruciatingly difficult. We'd be happy to play a
non-paying customer role though... :)

> Bill, can you please indicate to this list if/when you actually get an
> ok for this?

The topic (more or less as posted) went into "the system".
I'll see if I can find out what state it is in and report
back...

Regards,
--
Bil
http://fun3d.lar...

Bil Kleb

3/1/2006 10:30:00 AM

0

Phil Tomson wrote:
>
> Maybe I misunderstood your original post in this thread:
> Are you looking for people to submit SBIR applications
> for funding to develop Ruby applications which fall into
> your list of needed apps?

Yes.

> I don't understand the SBIR process much,

I think only those that have gone through it a few times do.

> but I'm guessing that you (as an 'agent' in a government
> agency) are asking for people to submit proposals for SBIR
> funding from your agency - am I right?

More or less, yes. The funding actually comes from NASA's
SBIR program.

> Can you offer any more details about the process?

Details, such as they are, are available from the NASA SBIR
folks, their website is http://sbir.gsf...

Regards,
--
Bil Kleb, 757.864.4364
http://fun3d.lar...

Caleb Tennis

3/1/2006 12:15:00 PM

0

>
> I don't understand the SBIR process much, but I'm guessing that you
> (as an
> 'agent' in a government agency) are asking for people to submit
> proposals for
> SBIR funding from your agency - am I right? Can you offer any more
> details
> about the process?
>

When the solicitation for proposals opens up (in July for the NASA
SBIR topics), you will be able to write a proposal for how you are
able to accomplish what's needed. Then a committee decides which
proposal wins, and they award you the money.

If you win phase #1, you get $70k and 6? months to do a proof of
concept. After that, you can/are encouraged to write a proposal for
phase #2, which is a longer term (2 year) effort for larger money
(500k). This is about actually building your product. From there,
you can get more money if you show promise for commercializing and
your contracting officer can get the $$.

Having an inside edge on SBIR topics is about the only way to win
one, unfortunately. It's to your advantage if you know someone on
the inside, but if you don't - you're a long shot.

That said, SBIRs are very nice because they encourage
commercialization of your product - and you retain the patents and
control rights. However, there is also a lot of overhead involved.
You have to write constant update reports, sometimes to multiple
people about different things. You can expect to be audited. You'll
push a lot of paper to a lot of different people.

But don't let any of that discourage anybody. Getting into SBIRs is
a lot like a startup - you'll have a few failures at first, but if
you hang on you can reap some great rewards.

I think Bil's Ruby proposal is wonderful! We'll definitely plan to
give it a look when it's formally released.

Caleb


jdh2358

3/1/2006 8:14:00 PM

0

How much effort do you already have invested in Ruby? People have
been working hard on scientific python for 10 years (scipy, numpy,
matplotlib,
vtk python interfaces, weave, f2py). In the arena of scientific
computing, my guess
is Ruby is about 3 years behind, maybe more, just in terms of how long
it would take to
produce reasonably full featured, bug-vetted libraries with a broad
user base comparable to what python already has.

Does Ruby offer you such great advantages over python that you are
willing to sacrifice mature
tools with widespread community involvement for these advantages? And
if so, what are they?



JDH

Bil Kleb

3/1/2006 9:24:00 PM

0

jdh2358@gmail.com wrote:
> Does Ruby offer you such great advantages over python that you are
> willing to sacrifice mature
> tools with widespread community involvement for these advantages? And
> if so, what are they?

Yes: fun (of all sorts).

--
Bil
http://fun3d.lar...

jdh2358

3/1/2006 9:36:00 PM

0

Thanks for the tip -- I'll be sure to give it a try then <wink>

JDH