Robert Isaacs
2/18/2006 6:18:00 PM
On 2/18/06, David Vallner <david@vallner.net> wrote:>> Dna Sobota 18 Február 2006 04:38 petermichaux@yahoo.com napísal:> > I've been poking my nose into some Java books over the last week. Java> > Web Start applications seem like the coolest thing.> >>> <rant>>> I don't recall seeing a single Java Web Start application that's not a> demo in> the wild. I'll admit, I didn't really look, or really care. The desktop> Java> market is miniscule, the only apps I can recall of having a major> following> are Eclipse (and other Java IDEs), jEdit, Azureus. None of those deployed> using JNLP.>> People don't want Yet Another Package Manager. I want my programs> installed> and kept up-to-date via RPM, APT, Portage, whatever is the standard on the> system I'm using (unfortunately, a similar system for Windows didn't come> to> mind), not something else I have to keep track of.>> If Sun wanted Java apps to be easily deployable, they'd provide a wrapper> to> turn JARs into proper executables with the JDK. JNLP is nonsense. It has> marginal usefulness in deploying applications internally, but that's> easily> doable with remote administration without anyone clicking on links.>> Microsoft aims to Do Stuff with its .NET clone of JNLP, and given their> option> to force anything down the throats of users with a new Windows version> which> Sun didn't have, it might actually end up being used.>> </rant>>> > This sounds like it could be much better then a database admin website> and> > having to download admin web pages and images and css and javascript> files> > over and over.> >>> Ever heard of browser caching?>> > Does Ruby Web Start exist or is it being developed?> >>> I doubt it. We have gems. Set your browser to do a "gem install" when you> click on a link to a gem file, sounds pretty much the same to me.>> > This sounds like the future to me.> >>> It sounds like a relic from when Scott McNealy thought people will give up> PCs> and only use thin clients with everything stored server-side to me. Or> that> someone might actually use desktop Java apps - which, ironically, finally> start to look and feel much less repulsively now (half-hearted yay for> native> controls in Swing 1.6) that no one gives a damn.>> David VallnerI have actually noticed a Renaissance in Java desktop apps. For the longesttime, I didn't expect Java on the desktop to be much of a force, but I haveto tell you, things are starting to change.I don't think you gave proper perspective to the apps you mentioned:Eclipse is used to hundreds of thousands of developers, so that isn't aminuscule application.Azeurus had a million downloads in a single day when the latest version wasreleased... another massively popular application.I have also started using RSSOwl which is just a really nice RSS feedreader.An application that I use that is deployed via Java Web Start is calledArgoUML which is a UML modelling program. Every time I start it, I have thelatest release.The .Net equivalent is called ClickOnce. We'll see how it turns out. Ihave no doubt that people will use it, not because they're forced, butbecause Microsoft does have a way of making development of stuff like thatpretty easy. I have a server diagnostic tool that I wrote for ClickOnce andwhenever I add a new diagnostic to it, I can be sure that the next time Irun it on one of my (geographically distributed) servers, it'll have all ofthe latest tests.Rob