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comp.lang.ruby

OT: Is this worth a try?

greg.kujawa

2/15/2006 7:33:00 PM

I am trying out some other scripting languages and wanted to give
Eiffel a try. Since a lot of the folks who post here seem to be
familiar with other languages than Ruby I was wondering if anyone had
some comments on how Eiffel is to learn. Coming from a Ruby/Smalltalk
background and mindset. Is it worth a shot? I downloaded the
EiffelStudio free version and am considering recoding a basic app in
Eiffel to see how it works. Will it be something that should be
enjoyable (or at least not that big of a PITA)?
13 Answers

David Vallner

2/15/2006 10:12:00 PM

0

Dna Streda 15 Február 2006 20:33 gregarican napísal:
> I am trying out some other scripting languages and wanted to give
> Eiffel a try. Since a lot of the folks who post here seem to be
> familiar with other languages than Ruby I was wondering if anyone had
> some comments on how Eiffel is to learn. Coming from a Ruby/Smalltalk
> background and mindset. Is it worth a shot? I downloaded the
> EiffelStudio free version and am considering recoding a basic app in
> Eiffel to see how it works. Will it be something that should be
> enjoyable (or at least not that big of a PITA)?

Eiffel is:

a) Completely dead, I'd say even more so than Smalltalk.
b) The prime example of a bondage and discipline language. Which you might or
might not like, but If you do, you're probably better off with C++ for
overall usefulness.

David Vallner

Jim Weirich

2/16/2006 5:48:00 AM

0

Greg Kujawa wrote:
> I am trying out some other scripting languages and wanted to give
> Eiffel a try. Since a lot of the folks who post here seem to be
> familiar with other languages than Ruby I was wondering if anyone had
> some comments on how Eiffel is to learn. Coming from a Ruby/Smalltalk
> background and mindset. Is it worth a shot? I downloaded the
> EiffelStudio free version and am considering recoding a basic app in
> Eiffel to see how it works. Will it be something that should be
> enjoyable (or at least not that big of a PITA)?

I played around with Eiffel for 3 years before switching to Ruby. In 6
months I wrote more Ruby code than in the entire 3 years of Eiffel.
Productivity is way higher in Ruby.

However, the concepts learned in Eiffel were valuable for me. No, you
are probably not going to land your next big job because you know
Eiffel, but learning to use Eiffel well will help you write better code
in any OO language, IMHO.

-- Jim Weirich


--
Posted via http://www.ruby-....

Guido Kollerie

2/16/2006 9:39:00 AM

0

David Vallner wrote:

> Eiffel is:
>
> a) Completely dead, I'd say even more so than Smalltalk.

Despite being 'completely dead' someone found it to be the appropriate
tool to write a commercial Ruby IDE in, namely Arachno Ruby:

http://www.ruby-ide.com/ru...

--
Guido

greg.kujawa

2/16/2006 2:05:00 PM

0

David Valler wrote:

> Eiffel is:
>
> a) Completely dead, I'd say even more so than Smalltalk.
> b) The prime example of a bondage and discipline language. Which you > > might or
> might not like, but If you do, you're probably better off with C++ for
> overall usefulness.
>
>
> David Vallner

Thanks for the info. Breezing through some source code example the
syntax and rules didn't exactly click with me like things did when I
first started learning Ruby. So far the languages I really enjoy coding
in are Ruby, Python, and Smalltalk. Things seem relatively clean,
concise, and "just make sense" to the way I think.

A language I have tried to port projects to for the heck of it but just
can't seem to get up the interest is Java. Trying to port an app to the
Palm OS I see that Java has various implementations that will allow me
to do so. Like J2ME, IBM Websphere, and a few others. But the
verbosity, syntax, rules, readability, etc. leave me sitting there
frowning. Okay I want to create a instance of their Vector class. So I
have to type out something like:

Vector parameters = new Vector();

Ewww. Whereas in Ruby I can just say:

parameters = []

I know it's just taste and preference, but I'm glad I found alternative
languages like Ruby!

David Vallner

2/16/2006 2:07:00 PM

0

Dna Štvrtok 16 Február 2006 10:38 Guido Kollerie napísal:
> David Vallner wrote:
> > Eiffel is:
> >
> > a) Completely dead, I'd say even more so than Smalltalk.
>
> Despite being 'completely dead' someone found it to be the appropriate
> tool to write a commercial Ruby IDE in, namely Arachno Ruby:
>

The popularity of a language is completely unrelated to whether it's a good
tool for anything. I just wouldn't count on Eiffel paying your bills. It just
could happen, but it's not very likely.

David Vallner

Gene Tani

2/16/2006 2:17:00 PM

0


Jim Weirich wrote:
> Greg Kujawa wrote:
> > I am trying out some other scripting languages and wanted to give
> > Eiffel a try. Since a lot of the folks who post here seem to be
....
>
> I played around with Eiffel for 3 years before switching to Ruby. In 6
> months I wrote more Ruby code than in the entire 3 years of Eiffel.
> Productivity is way higher in Ruby.
>
> However, the concepts learned in Eiffel were valuable for me. No, you
> are probably not going to land your next big job because you know
> Eiffel, but learning to use Eiffel well will help you write better code
> in any OO language, IMHO.
>
> -- Jim Weirich
>

http://www.artima.com/articles/index.jsp?to...

Seth Thomas Rasmussen

2/16/2006 4:24:00 PM

0

Everything is worth a try.

Hal E. Fulton

2/17/2006 12:49:00 AM

0

Robert Klemme wrote:
> 2006/2/16, Seth Thomas Rasmussen <sethrasmussen@gmail.com>:
>
>>Everything is worth a try.
>
>
> I'm not sure about suicide though...

I've never heard complaints from people who did it right...


Hal

netghost

2/18/2006 2:53:00 AM

0

I think every new language you learn helps you greatly. I would
personaly suggest looking at Io,
http://www.iolanguage....
It took me a few hits on their site before I really looked at it, and
then a little longer to appreciate it, but once I did, wow.

Each language allows a different framework for solving a problem, and
will enrich your understanding of all other languages through the
similarities and differences.

Maybe I'll figure out those really functional wacky languages some day,
.adam

greg.kujawa

2/18/2006 6:11:00 AM

0

Adam Sanderson wrote:

> I think every new language you learn helps you greatly. I would
> personaly suggest looking at Io,
> http://www.iolanguage....
> It took me a few hits on their site before I really looked at it, and
> then a little longer to appreciate it, but once I did, wow.

Wow. That's pretty out there.