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comp.lang.ruby

Re: [OT] AJAX pains.

Stephen Waits

1/10/2006 3:09:00 PM


Hi David,

Are you sure you're in the right group? The reason I ask is because
you mention lots of things that aren't ruby. AJAX, J2EE, etc..

If it's Ruby on Rails you're looking for, please try the Rails
mailing list.. visit the Rails mailing list page at:

http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/list...

If it's not Rails you're looking for, could you be more specific?

Sincerely,
Steve
12 Answers

David Vallner

1/10/2006 6:17:00 PM

0

Stephen Waits wrote:

>
> Hi David,
>
> Are you sure you're in the right group? The reason I ask is because
> you mention lots of things that aren't ruby. AJAX, J2EE, etc..
>
> If it's Ruby on Rails you're looking for, please try the Rails
> mailing list.. visit the Rails mailing list page at:
>
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/list...
>
> If it's not Rails you're looking for, could you be more specific?
>
> Sincerely,
> Steve
>
Whence the [OT] tag, this one was a shot in the blind hoping to avoid
stumbling blindly over Google results and pouring over documentation and
tiresome formal specifications by asking a community that has already
proven to be helpful. I did toy with the AJAX support in Rails, and I
wondered if by any weird twist of chance anyone can recommend from
experience a similarly well-integrated solution for a J2EE backend,
which will be the case in the project mentioned. (Alas.)

David Vallner

Steve Litt

1/10/2006 7:28:00 PM

0

On Tuesday 10 January 2006 01:17 pm, David Vallner wrote:
> Stephen Waits wrote:
> > Hi David,
> >
> > Are you sure you're in the right group? The reason I ask is because
> > you mention lots of things that aren't ruby. AJAX, J2EE, etc..
> >
> > If it's Ruby on Rails you're looking for, please try the Rails
> > mailing list.. visit the Rails mailing list page at:
> >
> > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/list...
> >
> > If it's not Rails you're looking for, could you be more specific?
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Steve
>
> Whence the [OT] tag, this one was a shot in the blind hoping to avoid
> stumbling blindly over Google results and pouring over documentation and
> tiresome formal specifications by asking a community that has already
> proven to be helpful. I did toy with the AJAX support in Rails, and I
> wondered if by any weird twist of chance anyone can recommend from
> experience a similarly well-integrated solution for a J2EE backend,
> which will be the case in the project mentioned. (Alas.)
>
> David Vallner

Have you tried doing an ultra-simple ajax yet? Maybe the simplest possible
ajax program could work, and then you could increment from there.

I plan on doing a trivial Ajax program sometime this week, and I'll let you
know what I find out.

SteveT


--
Steve Litt
http://www.troublesh...
slitt@troubleshooters.com

james_b

1/10/2006 7:55:00 PM

0

Steve Litt wrote:
> Have you tried doing an ultra-simple ajax yet? Maybe the simplest possible
> ajax program could work, and then you could increment from there.
>
> I plan on doing a trivial Ajax program sometime this week, and I'll let you
> know what I find out.

AJAX tends to be fairly simple; the hard part is tasteful application.


James
--

http://www.ru... - Ruby Help & Documentation
http://www.artima.c... - The Journal By & For Rubyists
http://www.rub... - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
http://www.jame... - Playing with Better Toys
http://www.30seco... - Building Better Tools

Stephen Waits

1/10/2006 9:58:00 PM

0

James Britt wrote:
> AJAX tends to be fairly simple; the hard part is tasteful application.

The Pragmatic Programmers have a decent book on AJAX.

--Steve

David Vallner

1/11/2006 4:15:00 AM

0

Steve Litt wrote:

>On Tuesday 10 January 2006 01:17 pm, David Vallner wrote:
>
>
>>Stephen Waits wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi David,
>>>
>>>Are you sure you're in the right group? The reason I ask is because
>>>you mention lots of things that aren't ruby. AJAX, J2EE, etc..
>>>
>>>If it's Ruby on Rails you're looking for, please try the Rails
>>>mailing list.. visit the Rails mailing list page at:
>>>
>>> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/list...
>>>
>>>If it's not Rails you're looking for, could you be more specific?
>>>
>>>Sincerely,
>>>Steve
>>>
>>>
>>Whence the [OT] tag, this one was a shot in the blind hoping to avoid
>>stumbling blindly over Google results and pouring over documentation and
>>tiresome formal specifications by asking a community that has already
>>proven to be helpful. I did toy with the AJAX support in Rails, and I
>>wondered if by any weird twist of chance anyone can recommend from
>>experience a similarly well-integrated solution for a J2EE backend,
>>which will be the case in the project mentioned. (Alas.)
>>
>>David Vallner
>>
>>
>
>Have you tried doing an ultra-simple ajax yet? Maybe the simplest possible
>ajax program could work, and then you could increment from there.
>
>I plan on doing a trivial Ajax program sometime this week, and I'll let you
>know what I find out.
>
>SteveT
>
>
>
>
I went through some tutorials, but I believe I'll need some
production-quality backing for the project. The schedule of it is pretty
thin stretched already, everyone else on the team has even less AJAX
experience than I do, and the requirement to implement a web-deployed
rich client is pretty much a given. That's why I'd like to avoid
succumbing to the "Not Invented Here" syndrome and try to make heavy use
of third-party code for this - the situation doesn't quite provide for
the development team to learn to hand-code AJAX patterns in the time given.

David Vallner

David Vallner

1/11/2006 4:19:00 AM

0

Stephen Waits wrote:

> James Britt wrote:
>
>> AJAX tends to be fairly simple; the hard part is tasteful application.
>
>
> The Pragmatic Programmers have a decent book on AJAX.
>
> --Steve
>
>
I've already assigned the sample chapters available online as obligatory
reading - pretty much the only comprehensive reading on the topic that
goes beyond the level of simple introductions or code snippets. I'm
hoping into manipulating the Powers that Be into funding a copy or two
from the project budget.

David Vallner

1/11/2006 4:25:00 AM

0

James Britt wrote:

> Steve Litt wrote:
>
>> Have you tried doing an ultra-simple ajax yet? Maybe the simplest
>> possible ajax program could work, and then you could increment from
>> there.
>>
>> I plan on doing a trivial Ajax program sometime this week, and I'll
>> let you know what I find out.
>
>
> AJAX tends to be fairly simple; the hard part is tasteful application.
>
>
> James

I expect most of the application to be relatively simple callbacks to
pan webcams, or push announcements from the server side. Why I'm aiming
for a heavier AJAX setup is that besides a web client, the project also
includes one or several rich clients, and I'm hoping to at least share
basic design between those two instead of modelling the same interface
twice for two UI paradigms, and in the ideal case using some declarative
UI specifications and generating the interface from those.

David Vallner

Steve Litt

1/11/2006 4:46:00 AM

0

On Tuesday 10 January 2006 11:15 pm, David Vallner wrote:
> Steve Litt wrote:
> >On Tuesday 10 January 2006 01:17 pm, David Vallner wrote:
> >>Stephen Waits wrote:
> >>>Hi David,
> >>>
> >>>Are you sure you're in the right group? The reason I ask is because
> >>>you mention lots of things that aren't ruby. AJAX, J2EE, etc..
> >>>
> >>>If it's Ruby on Rails you're looking for, please try the Rails
> >>>mailing list.. visit the Rails mailing list page at:
> >>>
> >>> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/list...
> >>>
> >>>If it's not Rails you're looking for, could you be more specific?
> >>>
> >>>Sincerely,
> >>>Steve
> >>
> >>Whence the [OT] tag, this one was a shot in the blind hoping to avoid
> >>stumbling blindly over Google results and pouring over documentation and
> >>tiresome formal specifications by asking a community that has already
> >>proven to be helpful. I did toy with the AJAX support in Rails, and I
> >>wondered if by any weird twist of chance anyone can recommend from
> >>experience a similarly well-integrated solution for a J2EE backend,
> >>which will be the case in the project mentioned. (Alas.)
> >>
> >>David Vallner
> >
> >Have you tried doing an ultra-simple ajax yet? Maybe the simplest possible
> >ajax program could work, and then you could increment from there.
> >
> >I plan on doing a trivial Ajax program sometime this week, and I'll let
> > you know what I find out.
> >
> >SteveT
>
> I went through some tutorials, but I believe I'll need some
> production-quality backing for the project. The schedule of it is pretty
> thin stretched already, everyone else on the team has even less AJAX
> experience than I do, and the requirement to implement a web-deployed
> rich client is pretty much a given. That's why I'd like to avoid
> succumbing to the "Not Invented Here" syndrome and try to make heavy use
> of third-party code for this - the situation doesn't quite provide for
> the development team to learn to hand-code AJAX patterns in the time given.
>
> David Vallner

Hi David,

I'm not sure what you're saying above. Do you consider Rails
production-quality backing? Tonight I did the Agile Rails Ajax that replaces
a <div> with a different view. Then I used that same technique to implement
two Fibbonacci Number Generators -- one that increments when you refresh the
page, and the other that increments on the Ajax call. That proved
conclusively that Ajax was not refreshing the whole web page. The process of
making that app was almost trivial, partially because I started it by
generating the controller and both views, and then just modified what had
already been made.

In the next few days I want to try to make a form with field level validation
instead of form level validation.

There are lots of other Ajax techniques I'll be looking at this week.

Thanks

SteveT

Steve Litt
http://www.troublesh...
slitt@troubleshooters.com

Steve Litt

1/11/2006 4:53:00 AM

0

On Tuesday 10 January 2006 11:25 pm, David Vallner wrote:
> James Britt wrote:
> > Steve Litt wrote:
> >> Have you tried doing an ultra-simple ajax yet? Maybe the simplest
> >> possible ajax program could work, and then you could increment from
> >> there.
> >>
> >> I plan on doing a trivial Ajax program sometime this week, and I'll
> >> let you know what I find out.
> >
> > AJAX tends to be fairly simple; the hard part is tasteful application.
> >
> >
> > James
>
> I expect most of the application to be relatively simple callbacks to
> pan webcams, or push announcements from the server side. Why I'm aiming
> for a heavier AJAX setup is that besides a web client, the project also
> includes one or several rich clients, and I'm hoping to at least share
> basic design between those two instead of modelling the same interface
> twice for two UI paradigms, and in the ideal case using some declarative
> UI specifications and generating the interface from those.
>
> David Vallner

Hi David,

If you haven't already, you should sign up for the Rails list. Rails is a very
broad subject, and a few days on that list gives you a broad overview. The
Rails list is very enthusiastic and helpful.

Here's the signup details:

http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/list...

I like being on the Ruby-Talk list for the Ruby language, and the Rails list
for Rails.

HTH

SteveT

Steve Litt
http://www.troublesh...
slitt@troubleshooters.com

David Vallner

1/11/2006 5:28:00 AM

0

Steve Litt wrote:

>On Tuesday 10 January 2006 11:15 pm, David Vallner wrote:
>
>
>>Steve Litt wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Tuesday 10 January 2006 01:17 pm, David Vallner wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Stephen Waits wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hi David,
>>>>>
>>>>>Are you sure you're in the right group? The reason I ask is because
>>>>>you mention lots of things that aren't ruby. AJAX, J2EE, etc..
>>>>>
>>>>>If it's Ruby on Rails you're looking for, please try the Rails
>>>>>mailing list.. visit the Rails mailing list page at:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/list...
>>>>>
>>>>>If it's not Rails you're looking for, could you be more specific?
>>>>>
>>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>>Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Whence the [OT] tag, this one was a shot in the blind hoping to avoid
>>>>stumbling blindly over Google results and pouring over documentation and
>>>>tiresome formal specifications by asking a community that has already
>>>>proven to be helpful. I did toy with the AJAX support in Rails, and I
>>>>wondered if by any weird twist of chance anyone can recommend from
>>>>experience a similarly well-integrated solution for a J2EE backend,
>>>>which will be the case in the project mentioned. (Alas.)
>>>>
>>>>David Vallner
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Have you tried doing an ultra-simple ajax yet? Maybe the simplest possible
>>>ajax program could work, and then you could increment from there.
>>>
>>>I plan on doing a trivial Ajax program sometime this week, and I'll let
>>>you know what I find out.
>>>
>>>SteveT
>>>
>>>
>>I went through some tutorials, but I believe I'll need some
>>production-quality backing for the project. The schedule of it is pretty
>>thin stretched already, everyone else on the team has even less AJAX
>>experience than I do, and the requirement to implement a web-deployed
>>rich client is pretty much a given. That's why I'd like to avoid
>>succumbing to the "Not Invented Here" syndrome and try to make heavy use
>>of third-party code for this - the situation doesn't quite provide for
>>the development team to learn to hand-code AJAX patterns in the time given.
>>
>>David Vallner
>>
>>
>
>Hi David,
>
>I'm not sure what you're saying above. Do you consider Rails
>production-quality backing? Tonight I did the Agile Rails Ajax that replaces
>a <div> with a different view. Then I used that same technique to implement
>two Fibbonacci Number Generators -- one that increments when you refresh the
>page, and the other that increments on the Ajax call. That proved
>conclusively that Ajax was not refreshing the whole web page. The process of
>making that app was almost trivial, partially because I started it by
>generating the controller and both views, and then just modified what had
>already been made.
>
>In the next few days I want to try to make a form with field level validation
>instead of form level validation.
>
>There are lots of other Ajax techniques I'll be looking at this week.
>
>Thanks
>
>SteveT
>
>Steve Litt
>http://www.troublesh...
>slitt@troubleshooters.com
>
>
>
Thank you very much, but I don't need a Rails or AJAX sales pitch, I
need relevant advice on how I could make a J2EE server setup. We've Got
Managers *sigh*, and I don't really see my persuasive abilities good
enough to push Rails as the server-side environment, however I'd
-personally- prefer that. (Mind you, not as a team member, becase none
of the other team members have ANY Ruby skills, as opposed to heavy Java
schooling the company provides).

David Vallner