Asp Forum - Fixnums can have instance variables? Cool.

Gary Wright

12/30/2005 7:46:00 AM

This really surprises me:

3.instance_variable_set("@unbelievable", "believe it!")

puts 3.instance_variable_get("@unbelievable") # -> "believe it!"

which led me to:

class Fixnum
attr_accessor :note
end

13.note = "a baker's dozen"
25.note = "5 squared"

notes = [13, 21, 25].collect { |x| x.note } # ["a baker's dozen",
nil, "5 squared"]

Am I the only person with their jaw on the ground?

Gary Wright

14 Answers

Gregory Brown

12/30/2005 8:38:00 AM

On 12/30/05, gwtmp01@mac.com <gwtmp01@mac.com> wrote:

> class Fixnum
> attr_accessor :note
> end

> Am I the only person with their jaw on the ground?

that is very cool.

('a'..'z').each_with_index { |letter,index| index.note = letter }

That was my first little random hack, but I imagine there are more
possibilities here :)

Chris Pine

12/30/2005 8:57:00 AM

On 12/30/05, gwtmp01@mac.com <gwtmp01@mac.com> wrote:
> Am I the only person with their jaw on the ground?

When I discovered this, what surprised me was not so much that you
could do this, but that can do this _even_though_ you can't give them
singleton methods (or access their singleton classes).

I just assumed the reason was because the singleton classes are stored
in some structure that immediate values don't have, but that instance
variables are stored separately in some other way. (I never looked at
the interpreter source to verify this, though.)

So the question in my mind: Is there a reason we couldn't do that
with ints, too?

Chris

Pete

12/30/2005 10:14:00 AM

class Object
def foo
"foo"
end
class <<self
def bar
"bar"
end
end
end

examples:

"Some string".foo
-> "foo"

Bignum.bar
-> "bar

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:57:09 +0100, Chris Pine <chris@pine.fm> wrote:

> On 12/30/05, gwtmp01@mac.com <gwtmp01@mac.com> wrote:
>> Am I the only person with their jaw on the ground?
>
> When I discovered this, what surprised me was not so much that you
> could do this, but that can do this _even_though_ you can't give them
> singleton methods (or access their singleton classes).
>
> I just assumed the reason was because the singleton classes are stored
> in some structure that immediate values don't have, but that instance
> variables are stored separately in some other way. (I never looked at
> the interpreter source to verify this, though.)
>
> So the question in my mind: Is there a reason we couldn't do that
> with ints, too?
>
> Chris
>

Lyndon Samson

12/30/2005 11:09:00 AM

I'm pretty sure some of the crusty old rubyists here would say, Not being
surprised about this is a first step towards ruby master... :-)

Chris Pine

12/30/2005 11:39:00 AM

On 12/30/05, Pete <pertl@gmx.org> wrote:
> class Object
> def foo
> "foo"
> end
> class <<self
> def bar
> "bar"
> end
> end
> end

No, I meant giving the Fixnums themselves singleton methods, like this:

irb(main):001:0> a = 'hello'
=> "hello"
irb(main):002:0> def a.hi
irb(main):003:1> 'hi'
irb(main):004:1> end
=> nil
irb(main):005:0> a.hi
=> "hi"
irb(main):006:0> b = 5
=> 5
irb(main):007:0> def b.howdy
irb(main):008:1> 'howdy'
irb(main):009:1> end
TypeError: can't define singleton method "howdy" for Fixnum
from (irb):7
irb(main):010:0> :( Why not??

So I can do it for a string, but not a fixnum (or any other immediate object).

That's what surprised me. You can have instance variables for 5, but
not singleton methods for 5. (Of course you can have methods for 5,
but if 5 responds to it, then 6 does, too.)

Cheers,

Chris

Ross Bamford

12/30/2005 12:50:00 PM

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 07:46:17 -0000, <gwtmp01@mac.com> wrote:

> This really surprises me:
>
> 3.instance_variable_set("@unbelievable", "believe it!")
>
> puts 3.instance_variable_get("@unbelievable") # -> "believe it!"
>
> which led me to:
>
> class Fixnum
> attr_accessor :note
> end
>
> 13.note = "a baker's dozen"
> 25.note = "5 squared"
>
> notes = [13, 21, 25].collect { |x| x.note } # ["a baker's dozen", nil,
> "5 squared"]
>
> Am I the only person with their jaw on the ground?
>

:D That one got me, too. I kind of hinted at it in some nuby code I wrote
(http://roscopeco.co.uk/code/noob/bi...). Also check out:

irb(main):001:0> class Symbol
irb(main):002:1> attr_accessor :too
irb(main):003:1> end
=> nil
irb(main):004:0> :foo.too
=> nil
irb(main):005:0> :foo.too = 66
=> 66
irb(main):006:0> :foo.too
=> 66

This struck me as pretty cool, too:

irb(main):007:0> SomethingElse = Symbol
=> Symbol
irb(main):008:0> :foo.is_a? SomethingElse
=> true

God, Ruby is *good*

--
Ross Bamford - rosco@roscopeco.remove.co.uk

J. Ryan Sobol

12/30/2005 3:38:00 PM

Quoting http://www.rubygarden.org/faq/ent... :

"Fixnums, Symbols, true, nil, and false are implemented as immediate
values. With immediate values, variables hold the objects themselves,
rather than references to them.

Singleton methods cannot be defined for such objects. Two Fixnums of
the same value always represent the same object instance, so (for
example) instance variables for the Fixnum with the value "one" are
shared between all the "ones" is the system. This makes it impossible
to define a singleton method for just one of these."

~ ryan ~

On Dec 30, 2005, at 6:39 AM, Chris Pine wrote:

> On 12/30/05, Pete <pertl@gmx.org> wrote:
>> class Object
>> def foo
>> "foo"
>> end
>> class <<self
>> def bar
>> "bar"
>> end
>> end
>> end
>
> No, I meant giving the Fixnums themselves singleton methods, like
> this:
>
> irb(main):001:0> a = 'hello'
> => "hello"
> irb(main):002:0> def a.hi
> irb(main):003:1> 'hi'
> irb(main):004:1> end
> => nil
> irb(main):005:0> a.hi
> => "hi"
> irb(main):006:0> b = 5
> => 5
> irb(main):007:0> def b.howdy
> irb(main):008:1> 'howdy'
> irb(main):009:1> end
> TypeError: can't define singleton method "howdy" for Fixnum
> from (irb):7
> irb(main):010:0> :( Why not??
>
>
> So I can do it for a string, but not a fixnum (or any other
> immediate object).
>
> That's what surprised me. You can have instance variables for 5, but
> not singleton methods for 5. (Of course you can have methods for 5,
> but if 5 responds to it, then 6 does, too.)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris
>

Chris Pine

12/30/2005 9:10:00 PM

On 12/30/05, J. Ryan Sobol <ryansobol@gmail.com> wrote:
> Two Fixnums of
> the same value always represent the same object instance, so (for
> example) instance variables for the Fixnum with the value "one" are
> shared between all the "ones" is the system.

Makes sense so far. Then we get this:

> This makes it impossible
> to define a singleton method for just one of these."

What!? The implementation makes it impossible, not the fact that
every 1 in the system refers to the same object. The constant
"Object" refers to the same object (the Object class) every time I
write it; this certainly doesn't prevent one from writing singleton
methods for it.

I'm not sure what the original author of that was trying to say, but I
think the real answer is just that, for whatever implementation
reasons (most likely for the sake of optimization), immediate objects
can't have singleton methods.

Again, my guess is that the choice was make to store singleton methods
(or the pointer to the singleton class) in some "ruby object" struct
that immediate values don't have. But what I find surprising (going
all the way back to the beginning :) is that, given this, we can still
define instance variables. The reason for this must be that instance
variables are stored elsewhere (not in this "ruby object" struct, but
in some other data store). But this seems an odd choice. I would
have thought that both the klass pointer (as I think they call it) and
the instance variables are stored in that struct. Maybe GC had
something to do with this design... I can't say more without looking
at the source.

(Isn't this usually where Guy steps in with an email consisting of 4
words and the exact lines of the interpreter code? :)

Chris

Gary Wright

12/30/2005 9:49:00 PM

On Dec 30, 2005, at 4:10 PM, Chris Pine wrote:
> I'm not sure what the original author of that was trying to say, but I
> think the real answer is just that, for whatever implementation
> reasons (most likely for the sake of optimization), immediate objects
> can't have singleton methods.

Without thinking too hard about it and without looking at the
source code, I would guess that it is not supported to avoid
the overhead of a method search for individual objects. You
still have to do the method search for the class and as such
you can extend the class but the search for a per/object
method is avoided.

Gary Wright

ts

12/31/2005 10:13:00 AM

>>>>> "C" == Chris Pine <chris@pine.fm> writes:

C> (Isn't this usually where Guy steps in with an email consisting of 4
C> words and the exact lines of the interpreter code? :)

[ruby-talk:17321]

:-)

Guy Decoux

comp.lang.ruby

Fixnums can have instance variables? Cool.

Gary Wright

Gregory Brown

Chris Pine

Pete

Lyndon Samson

Chris Pine

Ross Bamford

J. Ryan Sobol

Chris Pine

Gary Wright

ts

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