Asp Forum - Capturing window display of another program?

David Brady

7/15/2005 4:54:00 AM

Is it possible to take a screenshot of another window in Ruby? (On Win32)

I'd like to write a script to scrape the output of a graphics test
program (which I do not have source for) at regular intervals, and run
tests against them. E.g., grab the display area & check to see if it's
generating a gradient fill (good), or a black display (bad) by testing
some of the pixels inside the display area.

What about sending clicks, drags and keypresses to that window? At that
point, it would be a poor man's WinRunner, hrm....

-dB

--
David Brady
ruby-talk@shinybit.com
I'm having a really surreal day... OR AM I?

13 Answers

Zach Dennis

7/15/2005 5:16:00 AM

David Brady wrote:
> Is it possible to take a screenshot of another window in Ruby? (On Win32)
>
> I'd like to write a script to scrape the output of a graphics test
> program (which I do not have source for) at regular intervals, and run
> tests against them. E.g., grab the display area & check to see if it's
> generating a gradient fill (good), or a black display (bad) by testing
> some of the pixels inside the display area.
>
> What about sending clicks, drags and keypresses to that window? At that
> point, it would be a poor man's WinRunner, hrm....
>

This has to be possible, because you can do this with GIMP. Perhaps
looking into... Windows GDI and...

EnumWindows
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/winui/winui/windowsuserinterface/windowing/windows/windowreference/windowfunctions/get...

FindWindow
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/winui/winui/windowsuserinterface/windowing/windows/windowreference/windowfunctions/get...

GetWindow
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/winui/winui/windowsuserinterface/windowing/windows/windowreference/windowfunctions/get...

BitBlt - to perform the screenshot
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/gdi/bitmap...

GetWindowRect
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/winui/winui/windowsuserinterface/windowing/windows/windowreference/windowfunctions/get...

Good luck! Let us know when you get something working!

Zach

Dave Burt

7/15/2005 7:44:00 AM

"David Brady" <ruby_talk@shinybit.com> asked:
> Is it possible to take a screenshot of another window in Ruby? (On Win32)
>
> I'd like to write a script to scrape the output of a graphics test program
> (which I do not have source for) at regular intervals, and run tests
> against them. E.g., grab the display area & check to see if it's
> generating a gradient fill (good), or a black display (bad) by testing
> some of the pixels inside the display area.
>
> What about sending clicks, drags and keypresses to that window? At that
> point, it would be a poor man's WinRunner, hrm....
>

You can use Ruby to interface AutoIt's COM component to make this a lot
easier than using straight Windows API calls:

http://www.autoitscript.co...
http://www.autoitscript.co...docs/functions.htm

AutoIt is freeware and can do all these things pretty easily, including
sending clicks and keys to a window, except for taking a screenshot AFAIK,
but PixelGetColor() and PixelSearch() can be used to search for a color in a
rectangle or get the color of a pixel, so maybe that's even better for your
purposes.

Cheers,
Dave

P. Rajah

10/11/2011 6:55:00 PM

On 10/11/2011 2:43 PM, Jay Stevens Maharaj aka the jumpin' jackass
jyotishithead aka the abominable ass-troll-oger wrote:

> In article<44100801-ab4f-4d47-9a8d-3fde63f05c34@c28g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>,
> fanabba<fanabba@aol.com> posted:
>>
>> Jay Stevens Maharaj posted:
>>
>>> Forwarded post from Dr. Babu Suseelan
>>>
>>>[...]
>>
>> Dr. Babu Suseelan is absolutely right.
>
> Yes he is!

No he isn't!

And you two clowns are agreeing with him(Suseelan) that politicians,
intellectuals, secularists, religious leaders, and media people you
disagree with should be "eliminated". Thus you have made death threats
against others.

--
Astrology: Fraud or Superstition?
http://www.seesharppress.com/...

Ass-troll-ogers/jyotishitheads are the bane of humanity, and must be
cleansed or otherwise purified for the benefit of society.

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/vhp...

usenet

10/11/2011 7:00:00 PM

Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
>
> In article
> <44100801-ab4f-4d47-9a8d-3fde63f05c34@c28g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>,
> fanabba <fanabba@aol.com> posted:
> >
> > Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
> >
> > > Forwarded post from Dr. Babu Suseelan
> > >
> > > Limits of Tolerance
> > >
> > > By Dr. Babu Suseelan
> > > Monday, October 10, 2011
> > >
> > > Hindus have forgotten the evils of Islam and misdeeds of Christians,
> > > viciousness of Marxists, and distorted values of criminal Congress
> > > Party and the full and dangerous arsenals of phony secularists.
> > >
> > > In the name of tolerance, Hindus have been tolerating intolerant
> > > dogmas and intolerant people. Compromising with evil, and tolerating
> > > valueless values of the our enemies is not a positive virtue. It is
> > > not tolerance. It is pathology. It will lead to mental-moral-
> > > cognitive-cultural decay and may disintegrate the country.
> > >
> > > Hindus need to be assertive and unite against the battle forces with
> > > a vengeance. Pluralism, linguistic and caste differences should not
> > > deter us from defeating the battle forces with ulterior motives
> > > waging open and hidden war against Hindutva with full forces of
> > > arsenal of foreign money, political power, mafia muscle and Jihadi
> > > terrorists. The battle will decide how we live, change our thinking,
> > > and it will define us as a nation with all inclusive cultural
> > > heritage and sublime values.
> > >
> > > It is time for Hindus to eliminate criminal politicians, alienated
> > > anti Hindu intellectuals, phony secularists, misguided religious
> > > leaders, and anti Hindu media. It is time for Hindus to ignore their
> > > negative logic, guilt producing false accusations, and blame game.
> > >
> > > Let us face it. We should admit that there is something fundamentally
> > > -politically wrong in our society. Let us generate new knowledge,
> > > ideas, concepts and action strategies based upon a rigorous and
> > > disciplined assessment of our present psycho-social-political
> > > situation. Thus we can gain political power and provide a better
> > > future for all Hindus.
> > >
> > > End of forwarded post from Dr. Babu Suseelan
> >
> > Dr. Babu Suseelan is absolutely right.
>
> Yes he is!
>
> Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
> Om Shanti

The first paragraph needs to be stated again and again:

"Hindus have forgotten the evils of Islam and misdeeds of Christians,
viciousness of Marxists, and distorted values of criminal Congress
Party and the full and dangerous arsenals of phony secularists."

- Dr. Babu Suseelan

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

P. Rajah

10/11/2011 7:07:00 PM

On 10/11/2011 2:59 PM, Jay Stevens Maharaj aka the jumpin' jackass
jyotishithead aka the abominable ass-troll-oger wrote:

> The first paragraph needs to be stated again and again:

Indeed it does, Jay! Here, let me do it for you:

The US-based head of a Christian organisation that runs several
orphanages in Orissa ? one of India?s poorest regions ? claims that
Christian leaders are being targeted by Hindu militants and carry a
price on their heads. ?The going price to kill a pastor is $250 (?170),?
Faiz Rahman, the chairman of Good News India, said.

Another passage that needs to be stated again and again, from a speech
by the hatemonger M. S. Golwalkar of the RSS:

"The foreign races in Hindusthan [India] must either adopt the Hindu
culture and language, must learn to respect and hold in reverence Hindu
religion, must entertain no idea but those of the glorification of the
Hindu race and culture, i.e., of the Hindu nation and must loose (sic)
their separate existence to merge in the Hindu race, or may stay in the
country, wholly subordinated to the Hindu Nation, claiming nothing,
deserving no privileges, far less any preferential treatment ? not even
citizen's rights. There is, at least, should be, no other course for
them to adopt. We are an old nation; let us deal, as old nations ought
to and do deal, with the foreign races, who have chosen to live in our
country.?

--
Astrology: Fraud or Superstition?
http://www.seesharppress.com/...

Ass-troll-ogers/jyotishitheads are the bane of humanity, and must be
cleansed or otherwise purified for the benefit of society.

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/vhp...

usenet

10/11/2011 7:12:00 PM

Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
>
> > In article
> > <44100801-ab4f-4d47-9a8d-3fde63f05c34@c28g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>,
> > fanabba <fanabba@aol.com> posted:
> > >
> > > Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
> > >
> > > > Forwarded post from Dr. Babu Suseelan
> > > >
> > > > Limits of Tolerance
> > > >
> > > > By Dr. Babu Suseelan
> > > > Monday, October 10, 2011
> > > >
> > > > Hindus have forgotten the evils of Islam and misdeeds of Christians,
> > > > viciousness of Marxists, and distorted values of criminal Congress
> > > > Party and the full and dangerous arsenals of phony secularists.
> > > >
> > > > In the name of tolerance, Hindus have been tolerating intolerant
> > > > dogmas and intolerant people. Compromising with evil, and tolerating
> > > > valueless values of the our enemies is not a positive virtue. It is
> > > > not tolerance. It is pathology. It will lead to mental-moral-
> > > > cognitive-cultural decay and may disintegrate the country.
> > > >
> > > > Hindus need to be assertive and unite against the battle forces with
> > > > a vengeance. Pluralism, linguistic and caste differences should not
> > > > deter us from defeating the battle forces with ulterior motives
> > > > waging open and hidden war against Hindutva with full forces of
> > > > arsenal of foreign money, political power, mafia muscle and Jihadi
> > > > terrorists. The battle will decide how we live, change our thinking,
> > > > and it will define us as a nation with all inclusive cultural
> > > > heritage and sublime values.
> > > >
> > > > It is time for Hindus to eliminate criminal politicians, alienated
> > > > anti Hindu intellectuals, phony secularists, misguided religious
> > > > leaders, and anti Hindu media. It is time for Hindus to ignore their
> > > > negative logic, guilt producing false accusations, and blame game.
> > > >
> > > > Let us face it. We should admit that there is something fundamentally
> > > > -politically wrong in our society. Let us generate new knowledge,
> > > > ideas, concepts and action strategies based upon a rigorous and
> > > > disciplined assessment of our present psycho-social-political
> > > > situation. Thus we can gain political power and provide a better
> > > > future for all Hindus.
> > > >
> > > > End of forwarded post from Dr. Babu Suseelan
> > >
> > > Dr. Babu Suseelan is absolutely right.
> >
> > Yes he is!
> >
> > Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
> > Om Shanti
>
> The first paragraph needs to be stated again and again:
>
> "Hindus have forgotten the evils of Islam and misdeeds of Christians,
> viciousness of Marxists, and distorted values of criminal Congress
> Party and the full and dangerous arsenals of phony secularists."
>
> - Dr. Babu Suseelan

Forwarded post from B. T.

Monday, October 10, 2011

My comments are enclosed in [[[ ----- ]]]

- B. T.

"Hindus have forgotten the evils of Islam and misdeeds of Christians,
viciousness of Marxists, and distorted values of criminal Congress
Party and the full and dangerous arsenals of phony secularists.

"In the name of tolerance, Hindus have been tolerating intolerant
dogmas and intolerant people. Compromising with evil, and tolerating
valueless values of the our enemies is not a positive virtue. It is
not tolerance. It is pathology. It will lead to mental-moral-
cognitive-cultural decay and may disintegrate the country.

[[[ country is already disintegrated ]]]

"Hindus need to be assertive and unite against the battle forces with
a vengeance. Pluralism, linguistic and caste differences should not
deter us from defeating the battle forces with ulterior motives
waging open and hidden war against Hindutva with full forces of
arsenal of foreign money, political power, mafia muscle and Jihadi
terrorists. The battle will decide how we live, change our thinking,
and it will define us as a nation with all inclusive cultural
heritage and sublime values.

[[[ every word is very true ]]]

"It is time for Hindus to eliminate criminal politicians, alienated
anti Hindu intellectuals, phony secularists, misguided religious
leaders, and anti Hindu media. It is time for Hindus to ignore their
negative logic, guilt producing false accusations, and blame game.

[[[ yes, you are 100% right, we have to do whatever you have said ]]]

"Let us face it. We should admit that there is something fundamentally
-- politically wrong in our society. Let us generate new knowledge,
ideas, concepts and action strategies based upon a rigorous and
disciplined assessment of our present psycho-social-political
situation. Thus we can gain political power and provide a better
future for all Hindus."

[[[ we all should work to wards that what ever you have suggested ,
it is a right thing to do ]]]

End of forwarded post from B. T.

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
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If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
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Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.

P. Rajah

10/11/2011 7:18:00 PM

On 10/11/2011 3:11 PM, Jay Stevens Maharaj aka the jumpin' jackass
jyotishithead aka the abominable ass-troll-oger wrote:

> "It is time for Hindus to eliminate criminal politicians, alienated
> anti Hindu intellectuals, phony secularists, misguided religious
> leaders, and anti Hindu media.
>
> [[[ yes, you are 100% right, we have to do whatever you have said ]]]

Jay Stevens Maharaj threatens to "eliminate" politicians, intellectuals,
secularists, religious leaders and media-persons who do not toe the line
of the fundamentalists of the RSS.

--
Astrology: Fraud or Superstition?
http://www.seesharppress.com/...

Ass-troll-ogers/jyotishitheads are the bane of humanity, and must be
cleansed or otherwise purified for the benefit of society.

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/vhp...

usenet

10/11/2011 7:42:00 PM

Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
>
> > > In article
> > > <44100801-ab4f-4d47-9a8d-3fde63f05c34@c28g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>,
> > > fanabba <fanabba@aol.com> posted:
> > >
> > > > Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
> > > >
> > > > > Forwarded post from Dr. Babu Suseelan
> > > > >
> > > > > Limits of Tolerance
> > > > >
> > > > > By Dr. Babu Suseelan
> > > > > Monday, October 10, 2011
> > > > >
> > > > > Hindus have forgotten the evils of Islam and misdeeds of Christians,
> > > > > viciousness of Marxists, and distorted values of criminal Congress
> > > > > Party and the full and dangerous arsenals of phony secularists.
> > > > >
> > > > > In the name of tolerance, Hindus have been tolerating intolerant
> > > > > dogmas and intolerant people. Compromising with evil, and tolerating
> > > > > valueless values of the our enemies is not a positive virtue. It is
> > > > > not tolerance. It is pathology. It will lead to mental-moral-
> > > > > cognitive-cultural decay and may disintegrate the country.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hindus need to be assertive and unite against the battle forces with
> > > > > a vengeance. Pluralism, linguistic and caste differences should not
> > > > > deter us from defeating the battle forces with ulterior motives
> > > > > waging open and hidden war against Hindutva with full forces of
> > > > > arsenal of foreign money, political power, mafia muscle and Jihadi
> > > > > terrorists. The battle will decide how we live, change our thinking,
> > > > > and it will define us as a nation with all inclusive cultural
> > > > > heritage and sublime values.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is time for Hindus to eliminate criminal politicians, alienated
> > > > > anti Hindu intellectuals, phony secularists, misguided religious
> > > > > leaders, and anti Hindu media. It is time for Hindus to ignore their
> > > > > negative logic, guilt producing false accusations, and blame game.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let us face it. We should admit that there is something fundamentally
> > > > > -politically wrong in our society. Let us generate new knowledge,
> > > > > ideas, concepts and action strategies based upon a rigorous and
> > > > > disciplined assessment of our present psycho-social-political
> > > > > situation. Thus we can gain political power and provide a better
> > > > > future for all Hindus.
> > > > >
> > > > > End of forwarded post from Dr. Babu Suseelan
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Babu Suseelan is absolutely right.
> > >
> > > Yes he is!
> >
> > The first paragraph needs to be stated again and again:
> >
> > "Hindus have forgotten the evils of Islam and misdeeds of Christians,
> > viciousness of Marxists, and distorted values of criminal Congress
> > Party and the full and dangerous arsenals of phony secularists."
> >
> > - Dr. Babu Suseelan
>
> Forwarded post from B. T.
>
> Monday, October 10, 2011
>
> My comments are enclosed in [[[ ----- ]]]
>
> - B. T.
>
> "Hindus have forgotten the evils of Islam and misdeeds of Christians,
> viciousness of Marxists, and distorted values of criminal Congress
> Party and the full and dangerous arsenals of phony secularists.
>
> "In the name of tolerance, Hindus have been tolerating intolerant
> dogmas and intolerant people. Compromising with evil, and tolerating
> valueless values of the our enemies is not a positive virtue. It is
> not tolerance. It is pathology. It will lead to mental-moral-
> cognitive-cultural decay and may disintegrate the country.
>
> [[[ country is already disintegrated ]]]
>
> "Hindus need to be assertive and unite against the battle forces with
> a vengeance. Pluralism, linguistic and caste differences should not
> deter us from defeating the battle forces with ulterior motives
> waging open and hidden war against Hindutva with full forces of
> arsenal of foreign money, political power, mafia muscle and Jihadi
> terrorists. The battle will decide how we live, change our thinking,
> and it will define us as a nation with all inclusive cultural
> heritage and sublime values.
>
> [[[ every word is very true ]]]
>
> "It is time for Hindus to eliminate criminal politicians, alienated
> anti Hindu intellectuals, phony secularists, misguided religious
> leaders, and anti Hindu media. It is time for Hindus to ignore their
> negative logic, guilt producing false accusations, and blame game.
>
> [[[ yes, you are 100% right, we have to do whatever you have said ]]]
>
> "Let us face it. We should admit that there is something fundamentally
> -- politically wrong in our society. Let us generate new knowledge,
> ideas, concepts and action strategies based upon a rigorous and
> disciplined assessment of our present psycho-social-political
> situation. Thus we can gain political power and provide a better
> future for all Hindus."
>
> [[[ we all should work to wards that what ever you have suggested ,
> it is a right thing to do ]]]
>
> End of forwarded post from B. T.

Forwarded post from B. T.

Monday, October 10, 2011

Forwarded post from K. G.

Saturday, October 8, 2011

A different point of view but a thought provoking one:

Scintillating logic, though contrary to conventional 'wisdom'.

(Author unknown).

Certainly not obscurantist !

- K. G.

CASTE FACTOR IN HINDUISM

During the 75th birth day celebrations of DK leader, Veeramani,
Karunanidhi had promised to recognize those who participated in the
anti-caste struggle movement. In this connection, I append below an
excellent article which appeared in an international magazine
regarding caste system in Hindu society.

A Pluralist's encounter with a Missionary

Once, a Southern Baptist missionary was my co-passenger in a flight.
Like every missionary out to seek a convert, he was pleasant. After
learning that I am a Hindu he asked, "Is the caste system going away
in India?" I quipped, "Why should it go away?" He was surprised by my
response and remarked, "You are the first Hindu who responded this
way. Most Hindus agree that caste must go away and say that it is
slowly going away."

I decided to turn the tables on him. I asked him, "What language do
the African Americans speak?" He replied, "English."

I asked, "What did their ancestors speak 500 years ago?" He began to
contemplate. I thought that I might have to wait for eternity like
the Christians have waited for the second coming of their messiah
before the missionary would answer, so I prompted him, "Swahili?
Hausa?" He agreed, "Yes." I asked, "Do the African Americans worship
the animist deities of their ancestors? Do they wed and bury per
their ancestral customs?" The missionary replied, "No."

I said that one could replace African Americans with any immigrant
group: The Dutch, the Germans, the French or the Latinos. I
added,"What you proudly advertise as the melting pot actually imposed
the language, culture, religion and customs of the dominant ethnic
group on all others. On the other hand, visit even a small village in
India with just 300 families. The chances are that this population
would be made up of 10 different castes and each of them retains its
distinct religious, wedding, funerary, culinary and dialectic
features. This is because, as a truly pluralistic society, the Hindu
India allowed each ethnic group, regardless of how numerically small
it was, to retain its identity."

"So," I added, "Caste is a result of this spirit of freedom and
pluralism. It is something to be proud of. On the other hand, the so-
called melting pot is actually a result of cultural, and often
physical, extermination of diverse identities by one intolerant and
powerful group."

I continued: "Like every other man made institution, caste too has
been misused. Then, so has been every other man made institution like
democracy or secularism. It was a democratically elected Hitler who
exterminated 6 million Jews, Gypsies and mentally retarded patients.

It was a democratically elected Jefferson who fixed the worth of
every African American child at $ 22.50 and proposed to forcibly
snatch them away from their parents and ship them back to Africa
after ensuring that the adult African American population does not
procreate any further.

It was a democratically elected Roosevelt who declared that the
extermination at the hands of the Whites was the best thing that
happened to the Native Americans. Stalin and Mao were secular but
they mercilessly sent millions to death camps."

I asked him, "Is anyone demanding that democracy or secularism be
abandoned because of a Jefferson, Roosevelt, Hitler, Stalin or Mao?
Why should caste be abandoned just because it was misused? Hindus
have systematically addressed caste inequities over the last 80 years
or so. If we assume that we rid our society of all discriminations in
the next 30 years, members of every caste, be it Brahmin,
Kayastha,Maratha or Paraiyah could proudly say that they follow the
millennia old religion, customs and dialects of their forefathers.
Suppose the Christian West similarly resolves racial discriminations,
could an African American, Dutch American or Latino make similar
assertion?"

I pointed out that in the casteless Christian West, the minorities
have been forced to abandon their identities and instead have been
made to imitate the dominant group in every aspect of life such as
religion, language, wedding and funeral customs. I cited the words of
Nathan Katz and pointed out how Hindu pluralism, of which caste is an
integral part, actually preserved minority customs. Katz, while
discussing how the Jewish people flourished for centuries amidst the
Hindus, writes: "A crucial distinction between India and the rest of
the Diaspora, however, is that in India acculturation is not paid for
in the currency of assimilation. By acculturation I mean fitting
comfortably into a society while retaining one's own identity,
whereas by assimilation I mean that the loss of that identity is a
perceived condition for acceptance. The study of Indian Jewish
communities demonstrates that in Indian culture an immigrant group
gains status precisely by maintaining its own identity. Such is the
experience not only of India's Jews, but also of local Christians,
Zoroastrians, and recently, Tibetan Buddhists. This striking feature
of Indian civilization is reflected by each of these immigrant
groups. Now let us forget the Southern Baptist missionary and ask the
Hindus: Would this preservation have been possible without the spirit
of pluralism, which was ensured by the caste system? Are the Hindus
going to repeat the missionary propaganda and deny the strengths of
their own civilization or are they going to understand the
institution of caste dispassionately? The missionary and the
imperialist know that the institution of caste must be obliterated if
the Hindu society were to be weakened and converted. A Hindu should
critically analyze his traditions instead of uncritically absorbing
propaganda.

End of forwarded post from K. G.

End of forwarded post from B. T.

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
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P. Rajah

10/11/2011 7:56:00 PM

The melting pot survives

THERE are few stranger alliances in America?s culture wars than the one
between nativists and multiculturalists on the subject of assimilating
immigrants. Nativists such as Pat Buchanan, a perennial presidential
contender, argue that the great American assimilation machine is broken
beyond repair. Immigrants arrived in such quantities in the 1980s and
1990s that they can seclude themselves in ethnic enclaves rather than
merging into the mainstream. And the growing ease of communications
means that they have no need to loosen their ties with their old
countries. The Italians who passed through Ellis Island at the turn of
the century had little hope of seeing their motherland again; the
Mexicans who these days get off the bus in downtown Los Angeles can
watch Mexican television, keep in contact with their relatives by
telephone or even, on special occasions, video conference, and return
home for several weeks a year.
AP

The multiculturalists who dominate the country?s universities and
pressure groups agree with the nativists? premise but go on to draw
radically different conclusions. ?Mainstream America? was never anything
more than a codeword for racial oppression, they argue. The arrival of
millions of unassimilated immigrants is requiring America to abandon the
old notion of a melting pot and turn itself instead into a ?gorgeous
mosaic? in which distinctive ethnic groups still manage to make a whole.

A brief visit to Huntington Park, a small city south of central Los
Angeles, suggests that there is something to this argument. In 1960
Huntington Park was such a white stronghold that blacks in nearby South
Central used to say that they had to cross the Mason-Dixon line in order
to visit it. But now it is almost entirely Latino. The main street,
Pacific Boulevard, looks as if it has been flown in ready-assembled from
Mexico. Record shops blast Latin crooners into the street. Toy shops
sell Mexican party games called pi?atas. A huge number of shops
specialise in bridal gowns and children?s clothes. In El Gallo Giro, a
huge fast-food joint, crowds of women make tortillas behind the counter.

But take a closer look at Huntington Park, and you begin to see signs of
assimilation. Street vendors sell hot dogs as well as tamalitos. The
hottest-selling pi?atas look like Teletubbies. One of the newest
additions to the high street, Solano?s Shoes, caters to youth
sub-cultures rather than ethnic tastes: 20% of its customers are black.
Most of the houses in the residential districts are immaculately kept,
suggesting that they are owned rather than rented; the schools offer
adult classes in English, citizenship and parenting. The city mayor,
Rosario Marin, even acted as a spokesman for the former Republican
governor, Pete Wilson.

So which is the real Huntington Park? Gregory Rodriguez, a fellow at the
New America Foundation whose earlier researches have decisively changed
the understanding of Latino experience in the United States, has added a
new element to the assimilation debate: facts and figures*. These facts
and figures are mostly drawn from the 1990 census, which remains the
best available snapshot of the American population, but they are also
supplemented by later data.

Mr Rodriguez says it is wrong to measure assimilation against impossible
standards. Immigrants have always taken time to move into the
mainstream, both geographically and culturally. And assimilation has
always been a two-way process, with each new wave of immigrants
contributing something to what it means to be American, from Jewish
humour to German beer. The proper measure of assimilation is not whether
ethnic groups have cut their ties to their homeland completely, but
whether they have put down roots in the United States. Mr Rodriguez
argues that if you look at the four most important measures of
?roots??citizenship, home ownership, language-acquisition and
intermarriage?then assimilation is going on much as it always has.

American citizenship has never been an automatic choice for immigrants:
only about half of the people who arrived in the United States at the
turn of the century chose to become citizens. In 1990, 40% of immigrants
were naturalised. But this proportion is likely to rise. The longer
immigrants stay in the United States, the more likely they are to become
citizens: only 23% of those who arrived in the early 1980s were
naturalised by 1990, compared with 41% of those who arrived in the late
1970s. And the recent anti-immigrant campaigns in California and
Congress have, paradoxically, inspired the greatest rush to
naturalisation in the history of the country. In 1996, there was a 212%
increase over the previous year in the number of Mexican immigrants who
became citizens.

Home ownership is another powerful symbol of attachment to American
life. Half of all immigrant homes were owner-occupied in 1990. This is a
much lower figure than the one for native-born Americans. But the longer
immigrants stay in the country, the more likely they are to join the
home-owning classes. In 1996, 75% of immigrants who had been in the
United States for at least 25 years owned their own homes, compared with
70% of native-born Americans.

The figures for intermarriage and language-acquisition are equally
heartening from an assimilationist point of view. By the third
generation, a third or more of Latino and Asian women are marrying
outside their ethnic group (see chart). In 1900, a quarter of immigrants
could not speak English; in 1990, the figure was only 8%. More than
three-quarters (76%) of immigrants spoke English ?with high proficiency?
within ten years of arriving; and almost all their children spoke
English either well or exclusively. Almost half the children of Asian
immigrants can speak only English.

Much of what Mr Rodriguez has to say is common sense. The United States
is the most culturally powerful nation in the world, striking terror
into chauvinists from Paris to Tehran; it is hardly surprising that it
should be able to absorb people within its own borders, particularly
since most people come to the United States with the express purpose of
getting ahead. It is perhaps not surprising either that nativists should
ignore common sense: at bottom, much of their objection to immigration
is based on race. But why multiculturalists should seek to deny the
obvious is a subject worthy of study in itself.

*?From Newcomers to Americans: The Successful Integration of Immigrants
into American Society?. National Immigration Forum, 220 I St NE,
Washington, DC, 20002.

--
Astrology: Fraud or Superstition?
http://www.seesharppress.com/...

Ass-troll-ogers/jyotishitheads are the bane of humanity, and must be
cleansed or otherwise purified for the benefit of society.

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/vhp...

usenet

10/11/2011 8:05:00 PM

Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
>
> > > > In article
> > > > <44100801-ab4f-4d47-9a8d-3fde63f05c34@c28g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > fanabba <fanabba@aol.com> posted:
> > > >
> > > > > Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Forwarded post from Dr. Babu Suseelan
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Limits of Tolerance
> > > > > >
> > > > > > By Dr. Babu Suseelan
> > > > > > Monday, October 10, 2011
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hindus have forgotten the evils of Islam and misdeeds of Christians,
> > > > > > viciousness of Marxists, and distorted values of criminal Congress
> > > > > > Party and the full and dangerous arsenals of phony secularists.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In the name of tolerance, Hindus have been tolerating intolerant
> > > > > > dogmas and intolerant people. Compromising with evil, and tolerating
> > > > > > valueless values of the our enemies is not a positive virtue. It is
> > > > > > not tolerance. It is pathology. It will lead to mental-moral-
> > > > > > cognitive-cultural decay and may disintegrate the country.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hindus need to be assertive and unite against the battle forces with
> > > > > > a vengeance. Pluralism, linguistic and caste differences should not
> > > > > > deter us from defeating the battle forces with ulterior motives
> > > > > > waging open and hidden war against Hindutva with full forces of
> > > > > > arsenal of foreign money, political power, mafia muscle and Jihadi
> > > > > > terrorists. The battle will decide how we live, change our thinking,
> > > > > > and it will define us as a nation with all inclusive cultural
> > > > > > heritage and sublime values.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is time for Hindus to eliminate criminal politicians, alienated
> > > > > > anti Hindu intellectuals, phony secularists, misguided religious
> > > > > > leaders, and anti Hindu media. It is time for Hindus to ignore their
> > > > > > negative logic, guilt producing false accusations, and blame game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let us face it. We should admit that there is something
> > > > > > fundamentally
> > > > > > -politically wrong in our society. Let us generate new knowledge,
> > > > > > ideas, concepts and action strategies based upon a rigorous and
> > > > > > disciplined assessment of our present psycho-social-political
> > > > > > situation. Thus we can gain political power and provide a better
> > > > > > future for all Hindus.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > End of forwarded post from Dr. Babu Suseelan
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Babu Suseelan is absolutely right.
> > > >
> > > > Yes he is!
> > >
> > > The first paragraph needs to be stated again and again:
> > >
> > > "Hindus have forgotten the evils of Islam and misdeeds of Christians,
> > > viciousness of Marxists, and distorted values of criminal Congress
> > > Party and the full and dangerous arsenals of phony secularists."
> > >
> > > - Dr. Babu Suseelan
> >
> > Forwarded post from B. T.
> >
> > Monday, October 10, 2011
> >
> > My comments are enclosed in [[[ ----- ]]]
> >
> > - B. T.
> >
> > "Hindus have forgotten the evils of Islam and misdeeds of Christians,
> > viciousness of Marxists, and distorted values of criminal Congress
> > Party and the full and dangerous arsenals of phony secularists.
> >
> > "In the name of tolerance, Hindus have been tolerating intolerant
> > dogmas and intolerant people. Compromising with evil, and tolerating
> > valueless values of the our enemies is not a positive virtue. It is
> > not tolerance. It is pathology. It will lead to mental-moral-
> > cognitive-cultural decay and may disintegrate the country.
> >
> > [[[ country is already disintegrated ]]]
> >
> > "Hindus need to be assertive and unite against the battle forces with
> > a vengeance. Pluralism, linguistic and caste differences should not
> > deter us from defeating the battle forces with ulterior motives
> > waging open and hidden war against Hindutva with full forces of
> > arsenal of foreign money, political power, mafia muscle and Jihadi
> > terrorists. The battle will decide how we live, change our thinking,
> > and it will define us as a nation with all inclusive cultural
> > heritage and sublime values.
> >
> > [[[ every word is very true ]]]
> >
> > "It is time for Hindus to eliminate criminal politicians, alienated
> > anti Hindu intellectuals, phony secularists, misguided religious
> > leaders, and anti Hindu media. It is time for Hindus to ignore their
> > negative logic, guilt producing false accusations, and blame game.
> >
> > [[[ yes, you are 100% right, we have to do whatever you have said ]]]
> >
> > "Let us face it. We should admit that there is something fundamentally
> > -- politically wrong in our society. Let us generate new knowledge,
> > ideas, concepts and action strategies based upon a rigorous and
> > disciplined assessment of our present psycho-social-political
> > situation. Thus we can gain political power and provide a better
> > future for all Hindus."
> >
> > [[[ we all should work to wards that what ever you have suggested ,
> > it is a right thing to do ]]]
> >
> > End of forwarded post from B. T.
>
> Forwarded post from B. T.
>
> Monday, October 10, 2011
>
> Forwarded post from K. G.
>
> Saturday, October 8, 2011
>
> A different point of view but a thought provoking one:
>
> Scintillating logic, though contrary to conventional 'wisdom'.
>
> (Author unknown).
>
> Certainly not obscurantist !
>
> - K. G.
>
> CASTE FACTOR IN HINDUISM
>
> During the 75th birth day celebrations of DK leader, Veeramani,
> Karunanidhi had promised to recognize those who participated in the
> anti-caste struggle movement. In this connection, I append below an
> excellent article which appeared in an international magazine
> regarding caste system in Hindu society.
>
> A Pluralist's encounter with a Missionary
>
> Once, a Southern Baptist missionary was my co-passenger in a flight.
> Like every missionary out to seek a convert, he was pleasant. After
> learning that I am a Hindu he asked, "Is the caste system going away
> in India?" I quipped, "Why should it go away?" He was surprised by my
> response and remarked, "You are the first Hindu who responded this
> way. Most Hindus agree that caste must go away and say that it is
> slowly going away."
>
> I decided to turn the tables on him. I asked him, "What language do
> the African Americans speak?" He replied, "English."
>
> I asked, "What did their ancestors speak 500 years ago?" He began to
> contemplate. I thought that I might have to wait for eternity like
> the Christians have waited for the second coming of their messiah
> before the missionary would answer, so I prompted him, "Swahili?
> Hausa?" He agreed, "Yes." I asked, "Do the African Americans worship
> the animist deities of their ancestors? Do they wed and bury per
> their ancestral customs?" The missionary replied, "No."
>
> I said that one could replace African Americans with any immigrant
> group: The Dutch, the Germans, the French or the Latinos. I
> added,"What you proudly advertise as the melting pot actually imposed
> the language, culture, religion and customs of the dominant ethnic
> group on all others. On the other hand, visit even a small village in
> India with just 300 families. The chances are that this population
> would be made up of 10 different castes and each of them retains its
> distinct religious, wedding, funerary, culinary and dialectic
> features. This is because, as a truly pluralistic society, the Hindu
> India allowed each ethnic group, regardless of how numerically small
> it was, to retain its identity."
>
> "So," I added, "Caste is a result of this spirit of freedom and
> pluralism. It is something to be proud of. On the other hand, the so-
> called melting pot is actually a result of cultural, and often
> physical, extermination of diverse identities by one intolerant and
> powerful group."
>
> I continued: "Like every other man made institution, caste too has
> been misused. Then, so has been every other man made institution like
> democracy or secularism. It was a democratically elected Hitler who
> exterminated 6 million Jews, Gypsies and mentally retarded patients.
>
> It was a democratically elected Jefferson who fixed the worth of
> every African American child at $ 22.50 and proposed to forcibly
> snatch them away from their parents and ship them back to Africa
> after ensuring that the adult African American population does not
> procreate any further.
>
> It was a democratically elected Roosevelt who declared that the
> extermination at the hands of the Whites was the best thing that
> happened to the Native Americans. Stalin and Mao were secular but
> they mercilessly sent millions to death camps."
>
> I asked him, "Is anyone demanding that democracy or secularism be
> abandoned because of a Jefferson, Roosevelt, Hitler, Stalin or Mao?
> Why should caste be abandoned just because it was misused? Hindus
> have systematically addressed caste inequities over the last 80 years
> or so. If we assume that we rid our society of all discriminations in
> the next 30 years, members of every caste, be it Brahmin,
> Kayastha,Maratha or Paraiyah could proudly say that they follow the
> millennia old religion, customs and dialects of their forefathers.
> Suppose the Christian West similarly resolves racial discriminations,
> could an African American, Dutch American or Latino make similar
> assertion?"
>
> I pointed out that in the casteless Christian West, the minorities
> have been forced to abandon their identities and instead have been
> made to imitate the dominant group in every aspect of life such as
> religion, language, wedding and funeral customs. I cited the words of
> Nathan Katz and pointed out how Hindu pluralism, of which caste is an
> integral part, actually preserved minority customs. Katz, while
> discussing how the Jewish people flourished for centuries amidst the
> Hindus, writes: "A crucial distinction between India and the rest of
> the Diaspora, however, is that in India acculturation is not paid for
> in the currency of assimilation. By acculturation I mean fitting
> comfortably into a society while retaining one's own identity,
> whereas by assimilation I mean that the loss of that identity is a
> perceived condition for acceptance. The study of Indian Jewish
> communities demonstrates that in Indian culture an immigrant group
> gains status precisely by maintaining its own identity. Such is the
> experience not only of India's Jews, but also of local Christians,
> Zoroastrians, and recently, Tibetan Buddhists. This striking feature
> of Indian civilization is reflected by each of these immigrant
> groups. Now let us forget the Southern Baptist missionary and ask the
> Hindus: Would this preservation have been possible without the spirit
> of pluralism, which was ensured by the caste system? Are the Hindus
> going to repeat the missionary propaganda and deny the strengths of
> their own civilization or are they going to understand the
> institution of caste dispassionately? The missionary and the
> imperialist know that the institution of caste must be obliterated if
> the Hindu society were to be weakened and converted. A Hindu should
> critically analyze his traditions instead of uncritically absorbing
> propaganda.
>
> End of forwarded post from K. G.
>
> End of forwarded post from B. T.

Christian Aggression

http://christianaggre...

- fanabba <fanabba@aol.com> posted:

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

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