Randy ?
12/15/2009 12:07:00 AM
On Mon, 12/14/09, at 4:40:57PM,
glenn <gamcclary@spiritone.com> wrote:
> ?? wrote:
>> On Mon, 12/14/09, at 2:52:41AM,
>> Snow <snowpheonix@eck.net.au> wrote:
>>
>>> Do they ever notice that in Matthew, when Yehoshua quotes this, he
>>> adds, "In vain do they worship me".
>>
>> ...teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
>>
>> Thus, the problem wasn't in worshiping Him, but in worshiping the
>> ideas of man rather than what God taught them in Scripture, as you do.
>>
>> John 10:30-33 NIV
>> (30) I and the Father are one."
>> (31) Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him,
>> (32) but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles
>> from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"
>> (33) "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but
>> for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
>>
>
> Yet another example (repeated, again) of Randy?? taking scripture out of
> context and giving it a meaning not intended in it's proper context.
A lie which you will not demonstrate below.
> First, ?? falsifies the meaning of the term "one" to make it mean "Same."
A lie which has been shown to be a lie repeatedly.
On the meaning of the word "one" in Scripture, e.g. Genesis:
1) God was not made in the image of man; man was made in the
image of God. There is no exact equivalent to God, and we
cannot fully comprehend Him by looking at human relationships.
At best, we can understand a similar sense in which distinct
persons are "one". Trying to limit God to only being "one",
in the exact sense human beings are, is an attempt to make a
god in the image of man.
2) One, does not mean "two or more". It means "one".
Here are multiple instances of the same exact word for "one",
as used in Genesis alone:
Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be
gathered together unto one <0259> place, and let the dry land
appear: and it was so.
Now, does "one", here, mean "more than one"? Maybe the water
was gathered in two places? No, "one" means "one". The one
place where water was gathered, WAS the "same" place where the
water was gathered.
Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall
upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one <0259> of his ribs,
and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Now, does this mean God took two of Adam's ribs, which were in
agreement with each other? No, the one rib which God took was
the "same" rib as the rib God took from Adam.
Genesis 4:19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of
the one <0259> was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
Was Adah really two wife beings who were in agreement with
each other? No, "Adah" was the "same" being as the "one"
wife, "Adah".
Genesis 10:25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of
one <0259> was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided;
and his brother??s name was Joktan.
Was "Peleg" really two different beings who were merely in
agreement with each other? No, he was the "same" being as the
"one" son "Peleg".
Glenn has previously said:
>It means "unified" or "agreed"
>The Son can say, "I and my Father are one" because He is
>"United and in agreement with" His Father. John 10:30.
People don't pick up stones to kill you, because you tell them
you agree with God. They understood He was claiming to be
"God", and the Jews only worshiped one "God", JHVH.
John 10
31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him,
32 but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great
miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"
33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the
Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be
God."
Now you will say Jesus was not the same person as His Father.
I will say, "Correct!". The Bible teaches *both* that there
is only one God (Being), *and* that the Father, Son, and
Spirit are this one "God".
By denying Jesus and the Father are one God, Glenn promotes the
worship of more than one God, which is idolatry, and
simultaneously denies Jesus is the same God Being as is the
Father (blasphemy).
> Second, ?? misinterprets the meaning of the Jew's statement to fit a
> false doctrine.
A lie which you have not and will not demonstrate.
> The Jews knew that from the beginning, God caused each Kind to bring
> froth after it's own Kind.
This statement you make has nothing to do with the passage in
question, which is where the Jews picked up stones to kill Jesus,
because He said He was one with the Father. They directly stated
the reason they were trying to stone Him, is because He, being a
man, made Himself out to be God. Thus, in claiming to be one
with the Father, the Jews directly understood He was claiming to
be God, and they only worshipped ONE God, JHVH!
Glenn's sophistry is therefore contrary to the plain statements
of Scripture.
> The Jews knew that the son of a horse, IS a horse.
> The get of an Ass, MUST BE an Ass. (Equus asinus)
>
> In the context of Jesus' discussion with the Jews, they asked Him, "If
> thou be the Christ, tell us plainly."
>
>
> Jesus replied "I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in
> my Father's name..."
>
> In this discussion Jesus refered to "My Father" at least four times!
>
> The Jews knew that the Son is the *SAME KIND OF BEING* as his father!
>
> The Jews knew that, but the trinitarians refuse to acknowledge that
> simple fact!
>
> If [since and because] Jesus is calling God His Father, then He (Jesus)
> is saying that He (Jesus) is the same kind of being as is His Father!
>
> But Randy Young, and the trinitarians, falsify this (and all other)
> Scriptures to support the false doctrine of a triune god.
>
> Jesus was NOT telling the Jews that He is the SAME BEING as God the
> Father, but that He is the same KIND of being.
There is nothing in the text that says anything like what Glenn
is saying here. Jesus said He was one with the Father, not that
He is the same kind of being as the Father, and they understood
Him to be claiming He was "God", not "a God", or "a God kind of
Being".
> The Jews demanded that He tell them plainly if he were the Christ, the
> promised Messiah, and He told them!
>
> The promised Messiah, the promised Savior, The promised Christ is the
> Son of David, the Son of God, and Jesus told them that He is THAT Son of
> God, the promised Messiah!
The idea that Jesus is the Son of God, and not the same person as
the Father is not some idea that destroys the view Glenn is
opposing. On the contrary. It's the other half of what that
view proposes. The Bible teaches there is only one God being
(JHVH). The Bible teaches three distinct persons (Father, Son,
and Spririt) are God.
Jesus showed in the passage above that He is one with the Father,
and the Jews understood Him to mean He claimed to be "God". They
only believed in one God being, and that is JHVH. Nothing in
that text says they understood Him to be claiming He was a God
kind of being, but that He was "God", the God, JHVH, which is the
only God they worship as God.
> The false doctrine of a triune god is a lie of Satan, and every time
> Randy?? falsifies scripture to teach or defend trinity doctrine he proves
> it to be false!
That there is only one God Being is not a lie of Satan.
That the Father, Son, and Spirit are God, is not a lie of Satan.
That they are three distinct persons is not a lie of Satan.
On the other hand, Glenn promotes the idea that both the Father
and Son are "God", yet that they are not the same Being. Thus,
he promotes both idolatry and blasphemy. Idolatry because he is
worshiping more than one "God", and blasphemy because He is
denying Jesus is the same one God Being as is the Father.
--
Have you heard Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him
from the dead? Did you know God saves you from hell and
gives you eternal life through faith in this finished work alone,
not your merits (Jn. 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-3; Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Thess.
1:8-9)? This is so man cannot boast, and God alone gets the
glory (Eph. 2:8-9).
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