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Re: ASP.NET vs Ruby on Rails

Joseph Graham

6/24/2005 9:22:00 PM

Hello,
I've used both and if I may offer an opinion and maybe some experience.


Short Answer:
Depends on what you want to use it for and how committed you are to your
technology requirements.

My choice:
ASP.Net for commercial projects that have to get done NOW and require
more from your development platform.

Here's the short list why:
* More control over the "URL" and what your URL's look like. (sometimes
this matters for SEO)
* Individual control caching and results caching
* Object relational mapping API and graphical toolsets
* True component architecture for both commercial and free components
(likelihood of reinventing the wheel lowered)
* Choice of multiple languages for both component and application
development and binary compatibility across languages
* Unified API for dealing with data from various providers such as
databases, ODBC, and XML web services.
* You don't have to use any of the above and you can still get the job
done

Final Notes:
Those are just the things that immediately come to mind. Rails is a
really cool idea and will evolve into something great no doubt. If you
have time to mess with it and are creative you can get a lot done and
have a great app. However I prefer the "evolution" of ASP.Net and its
component driven architecture. There are some cases where I did not
even use the component system or ADO.Net or really anything outside of
the scripting language to get stuff done.
Evolution is another factor driving technology choices and in my
experience the "state of evolution" has weighed in much more heavily
because of the huge requirements demand, team skill-sets, and short
timelines and usually non-negotiability of all of the above. However
given my personal choice I prefer a nice simple language like Ruby over
any of the .Net mainstream languages. GOOD LUCK!!


**Some notes on licensing: **
I've heard licensing and cost thrown in as a con but you can't really
look at licensing without looking at how much time something is going to
take you and/or your team and it's return on investment. Sure that's a
"business" approach but **IT is a cost of doing business so it depends
on how your business center wants to downstream their costs. If you
work in say a "profit center" where costs really hurt their numbers and
licensing software hurts then dragging the project out while you play
around with open software is the way to go. If you work in a cost
center and have lots of money to throw at getting something done then
comparatively speaking commercial products have a lot to offer vs.
building on your own (build vs. buy) I'm really tired of people bashing
licensing costs because in a pinch I'll shell out the cash to save me
hundreds of hours on completing a project and especially where deadlines
are concerned. Commercial software can be a lifesaver and this is
especially true where some component of your "commercial, proprietary"
application has a GPL license. So there's both pros and cons to
licensing so let's stop just throwing it out there as a "commercial=con,
open=pro" as it really degrades your argument.

**Rails being a web application platform seems heavily geared towards IT
related projects.



3 Answers

davidnorth

6/29/2005 8:17:00 AM

0

> * More control over the "URL" and what your URL's look like. (sometimes
> this matters for SEO)

I'd allways thought that is very hard to do nice SEO friendly URLs in
ASP.Net wheras Rails makes this as easy to do as not, and gives you a
great deal of control over how they look through Routes.



Joseph Graham wrote:
> Hello,
> I've used both and if I may offer an opinion and maybe some experience.
>
>
> Short Answer:
> Depends on what you want to use it for and how committed you are to your
> technology requirements.
>
> My choice:
> ASP.Net for commercial projects that have to get done NOW and require
> more from your development platform.
>
> Here's the short list why:
> * More control over the "URL" and what your URL's look like. (sometimes
> this matters for SEO)
> * Individual control caching and results caching
> * Object relational mapping API and graphical toolsets
> * True component architecture for both commercial and free components
> (likelihood of reinventing the wheel lowered)
> * Choice of multiple languages for both component and application
> development and binary compatibility across languages
> * Unified API for dealing with data from various providers such as
> databases, ODBC, and XML web services.
> * You don't have to use any of the above and you can still get the job
> done
>
> Final Notes:
> Those are just the things that immediately come to mind. Rails is a
> really cool idea and will evolve into something great no doubt. If you
> have time to mess with it and are creative you can get a lot done and
> have a great app. However I prefer the "evolution" of ASP.Net and its
> component driven architecture. There are some cases where I did not
> even use the component system or ADO.Net or really anything outside of
> the scripting language to get stuff done.
> Evolution is another factor driving technology choices and in my
> experience the "state of evolution" has weighed in much more heavily
> because of the huge requirements demand, team skill-sets, and short
> timelines and usually non-negotiability of all of the above. However
> given my personal choice I prefer a nice simple language like Ruby over
> any of the .Net mainstream languages. GOOD LUCK!!
>
>
> **Some notes on licensing: **
> I've heard licensing and cost thrown in as a con but you can't really
> look at licensing without looking at how much time something is going to
> take you and/or your team and it's return on investment. Sure that's a
> "business" approach but **IT is a cost of doing business so it depends
> on how your business center wants to downstream their costs. If you
> work in say a "profit center" where costs really hurt their numbers and
> licensing software hurts then dragging the project out while you play
> around with open software is the way to go. If you work in a cost
> center and have lots of money to throw at getting something done then
> comparatively speaking commercial products have a lot to offer vs.
> building on your own (build vs. buy) I'm really tired of people bashing
> licensing costs because in a pinch I'll shell out the cash to save me
> hundreds of hours on completing a project and especially where deadlines
> are concerned. Commercial software can be a lifesaver and this is
> especially true where some component of your "commercial, proprietary"
> application has a GPL license. So there's both pros and cons to
> licensing so let's stop just throwing it out there as a "commercial=con,
> open=pro" as it really degrades your argument.
>
> **Rails being a web application platform seems heavily geared towards IT
> related projects.

xmlblog

6/29/2005 5:18:00 PM

0

Jon does a great job of outlining more of ASP.NET's strengths. ASP.NET
is still my bread and butter and a really capable platform and I didn't
mean to sound so down on it, but as he illustrates in his anecdote, the
mass-market model of ASP.NET is not the model I want for my code. This
doesn't mean I haven't been able to do things my way, only that it was
more work than Rails makes it to do the same thing. I also had a
similar experience in terms of "having more fun" building with Rails.

As for the IDE discussion, I think both NetBeans and Eclipse are
bloated, unnatural beasts but that is totally a value statement. Since
I also don't do any professional Java work, I'm not qualified as an
expert evaluator so that's just my $.02. John also mentioned one of the
areas in which Visual Studio kicks the living **** out of all the other
IDEs I've seen: debugging. Whether you love or hate Microsoft, spend a
few hours with the VS debugger and a few hours without and I'm
convinced you'll have to give them their due credit.

xmlblog

6/29/2005 5:23:00 PM

0

There's a few ways to do SEO friendly urls for IIS/ASP.NET. One way is
ISAPI_REWRITE which is like a mod_rewrite for IIS. A pure ASP.NET way
is to implement a custom HttpModule. The module is pretty easy to
write, but if you want something nice and configurable like the Rails
routes you'll have to devote more energy to it. I bet you'll start
seeing a lot more of the ideas in Rails ported to ASP.NET by the
community. In cases where you don't have the luxury of just switching
architectures and blindly throwing away code (you'd be nuts to do this)
it makes sense to adapt stuff as elegant as the Rails implementations
and port it to .NET. A lot of the really good Java stuff has already
been ported (at least partially): JUnit, Hibernate, Spring, Maverick,
Ant etc.