Asp Forum - Re: ruby vs. java?

Steve Callaway

5/11/2005 10:33:00 AM

Franz,

Just my 2 cents worth: Object-oriented programming is
not a magic bullet. But in the scale of these things,
Visual Basic is a poor substitute for a OO programming
language; it is clumsy, slow, inelegant and its
tendency towards OO is more to sell it to uneducated
managers than to the poor programmers who are forced
to work with it.

The choice is therefore between Java, ruby and/or C or
C++. Java almost certainly has math libraries which
will do what you want BUT I would make that the first
point of departure, to ensure that it does have the
libraries you need at a price you are willing to pay
if you intend to go down the Java road.

Conversely if you find that the code is not available
(or not available at a price which you are prepared to
pay) then I would look very closely at ruby as the
best fit. It is fast, allows insertion of C compiled
objects for the removal of bottlenecks or to solve
particular problems for which none is available within
the standard version of the language itself. Moreover
ruby will require considerably less code to be written
overall than Java. My own experience suggests that the
learning curve with Ruby is markedly less steep than
with Java and you will be doing things faster and more
efficiently in a shorter space of time using Ruby than
you could ever hope to do in Java.

rgds

Steve Callaway

--- Franz Hartmann <porschefranz@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Michael and all of you,
>
> >From: Michael Ulm <michael.ulm@isis-papyrus.com>
> >Reply-To: ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org
> >To: ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org (ruby-talk ML)
> >Subject: Re: ruby vs. java?
> >Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 18:19:01 +0900
> >
> >Franz Hartmann wrote:
> >>Hello all,
> >>
> >--snip--
> >>I want to do a physical model calculation about
> the dynamics of
> >>incompressibel liquids. I am not sure which is the
> best programming
> >>language for this. I think about visual basic,
> java and ruby. I know java
> >>quite good and vb and ruby a bit. actually i
> wanted to do it in vb but its
> >>to powerful for me. so i am looking for something
> easier.
> >>
> >>can you tell me the essential differences between
> java and ruby? what can
> >>you do in ruby that you cannot do in java? and
> what about jruby? can i
> >>combine java and ruby?
> >>
> >
> >Sorry Franz, you are on a completely wrong track
> there. As much as
> >I hate to steer people away from Ruby, I don't
> think any of the
> >programming languages you mention are a good choice
> for numeric
> >simulations (if you would have to do it in one of
> those languages,
> >Ruby would be the best of the three for most
> applications).
>
> Why are the programming languages i need not a good
> choice? Everyone says
> that object oriented programming is much faster than
> normal. Java has more
> object oriented feetures than ruby, or supports ruby
> interfaces and things
> like that too? i have not found any thing about it
> but documentation is very
> poor.
>
> >I would recommend Octave as the best free choice
> for getting
> >solutions for (partial) differential equations. If
> you have money
> >to burn, you may want to look at Matlab or,
> depending on your
> >specific needs, Maple or Mathematica.
>
> i cannot use octave. SGI octave is a unix machine
> and i need windows
> compatible, or best case macintosh, because i need
> use word & excel & power
> point (& counterstrike *g* ). which programming
> languages run on octave?
> thank you for the suggestion, i have already tried
> matlab but it is not good
> to. I want to do object oriented programming because
> it is faster.
>
> >HTH,
>
> what means HTH?
>
> >Michael
> >
> >P.S. do yourself a favour and forget that such a
> beast as vb exists.
>
> Why that? VB is industry standard, a VERY powerful
> object oriented language.
> All programmers i know write in VB, and excel, word
> etc also use VB. What is
> wrong about it? (apart from that it is very
> difficult)
>
> >
> >--
> >Michael Ulm
> >R&D Team
> >ISIS Information Systems Austria
> >tel: +43 2236 27551-219, fax: +43 2236 21081
> >e-mail: michael.ulm@isis-papyrus.com
> >Visit our Website: www.isis-papyrus.com
>
> Nice website!
>
> Franz
>
>
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5 Answers

Franz Hartmann

5/11/2005 12:10:00 PM

Hello Steve,

>From: Steve Callaway <sjc2000_uk@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org
>To: ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org (ruby-talk ML)
>Subject: Re: ruby vs. java?
>Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 19:33:24 +0900
>
>Franz,
>
>Just my 2 cents worth: Object-oriented programming is
>not a magic bullet. But in the scale of these things,
>Visual Basic is a poor substitute for a OO programming
>language; it is clumsy, slow, inelegant and its
>tendency towards OO is more to sell it to uneducated
>managers than to the poor programmers who are forced
>to work with it.

Slow it is probable, if it is as slow as ruby (see my factorial mail). but
why inelegant? i think it is a very elegant thing to integrate a language
with an application (excel) (<= maybe i am really growing old :-) but still
i think that is a great idea)

>The choice is therefore between Java, ruby and/or C or
>C++. Java almost certainly has math libraries which
>will do what you want BUT I would make that the first
>point of departure, to ensure that it does have the
>libraries you need at a price you are willing to pay
>if you intend to go down the Java road.

as i said before, no problem with the library - have all the necessary books
on my shelf

>Conversely if you find that the code is not available
>(or not available at a price which you are prepared to
>pay) then I would look very closely at ruby as the
>best fit. It is fast, allows insertion of C compiled
>objects for the removal of bottlenecks or to solve
>particular problems for which none is available within
>the standard version of the language itself.

maybe i should really beginn learning c...
look how good i am already:
#define bah (unsigned double *)(&(--x)++.h->h?x:y) ~= 0815

>Moreover
>ruby will require considerably less code to be written
>overall than Java. My own experience suggests that the
>learning curve with Ruby is markedly less steep than
>with Java and you will be doing things faster and more
>efficiently in a shorter space of time using Ruby than
>you could ever hope to do in Java.

??? maybe its the inbreeding but i am confused... the learning curve with
ruby is /less steep/ but i will be doing things /faster... in a shorter
space of time/ ?

Franz

>rgds
>
>Steve Callaway
>
>--- Franz Hartmann <porschefranz@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello Michael and all of you,
> >
> > >From: Michael Ulm <michael.ulm@isis-papyrus.com>
> > >Reply-To: ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org
> > >To: ruby-talk@ruby-lang.org (ruby-talk ML)
> > >Subject: Re: ruby vs. java?
> > >Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 18:19:01 +0900
> > >
> > >Franz Hartmann wrote:
> > >>Hello all,
> > >>
> > >--snip--
> > >>I want to do a physical model calculation about
> > the dynamics of
> > >>incompressibel liquids. I am not sure which is the
> > best programming
> > >>language for this. I think about visual basic,
> > java and ruby. I know java
> > >>quite good and vb and ruby a bit. actually i
> > wanted to do it in vb but its
> > >>to powerful for me. so i am looking for something
> > easier.
> > >>
> > >>can you tell me the essential differences between
> > java and ruby? what can
> > >>you do in ruby that you cannot do in java? and
> > what about jruby? can i
> > >>combine java and ruby?
> > >>
> > >
> > >Sorry Franz, you are on a completely wrong track
> > there. As much as
> > >I hate to steer people away from Ruby, I don't
> > think any of the
> > >programming languages you mention are a good choice
> > for numeric
> > >simulations (if you would have to do it in one of
> > those languages,
> > >Ruby would be the best of the three for most
> > applications).
> >
> > Why are the programming languages i need not a good
> > choice? Everyone says
> > that object oriented programming is much faster than
> > normal. Java has more
> > object oriented feetures than ruby, or supports ruby
> > interfaces and things
> > like that too? i have not found any thing about it
> > but documentation is very
> > poor.
> >
> > >I would recommend Octave as the best free choice
> > for getting
> > >solutions for (partial) differential equations. If
> > you have money
> > >to burn, you may want to look at Matlab or,
> > depending on your
> > >specific needs, Maple or Mathematica.
> >
> > i cannot use octave. SGI octave is a unix machine
> > and i need windows
> > compatible, or best case macintosh, because i need
> > use word & excel & power
> > point (& counterstrike *g* ). which programming
> > languages run on octave?
> > thank you for the suggestion, i have already tried
> > matlab but it is not good
> > to. I want to do object oriented programming because
> > it is faster.
> >
> > >HTH,
> >
> > what means HTH?
> >
> > >Michael
> > >
> > >P.S. do yourself a favour and forget that such a
> > beast as vb exists.
> >
> > Why that? VB is industry standard, a VERY powerful
> > object oriented language.
> > All programmers i know write in VB, and excel, word
> > etc also use VB. What is
> > wrong about it? (apart from that it is very
> > difficult)
> >
> > >
> > >--
> > >Michael Ulm
> > >R&D Team
> > >ISIS Information Systems Austria
> > >tel: +43 2236 27551-219, fax: +43 2236 21081
> > >e-mail: michael.ulm@isis-papyrus.com
> > >Visit our Website: www.isis-papyrus.com
> >
> > Nice website!
> >
> > Franz
> >
> >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > Die rote Karte für lästige E-Mails. MSN Hotmail mit
> > Junk-Mail-Filter.
> > http://www.msn.de/antispam/prevention/junk...
> > Jetzt kostenlos
> > anmelden!
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Mail
>Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
>http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mai...
>
>

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Robert Klemme

5/11/2005 12:20:00 PM

Franz Hartmann wrote:
>> The choice is therefore between Java, ruby and/or C or
>> C++. Java almost certainly has math libraries which
>> will do what you want BUT I would make that the first
>> point of departure, to ensure that it does have the
>> libraries you need at a price you are willing to pay
>> if you intend to go down the Java road.
>
> as i said before, no problem with the library - have all the
> necessary books on my shelf

Franz, is it possible that you misunderstand the term "library" in this
context? Folks here are talking about libraries of written code while it
seems to me you are rather talking about a building with a lots of
books...

Kind regards

robert

Ralf Müller

5/11/2005 12:21:00 PM

> >The choice is therefore between Java, ruby and/or C or
> >C++. Java almost certainly has math libraries which
> >will do what you want BUT I would make that the first
> >point of departure, to ensure that it does have the
> >libraries you need at a price you are willing to pay
> >if you intend to go down the Java road.
>
> as i said before, no problem with the library - have all the necessary books
> on my shelf

library = function library

just in case ...

ralf
(-,-)...zZ

Steve Callaway

5/11/2005 12:58:00 PM

Reply to Franz Hartmann:

> Slow it is probable, if it is as slow as ruby (see
my factorial mail).
> but why inelegant? i think it is a very elegant
thing to integrate a
> language with an application (excel) (<= maybe i am
really growing old :-) but
> still i think that is a great idea)

Ruby is not slow relative to VB, on the contrary for
many if not most operations it is significantly
faster, both in terms of execution and of
construction.

The integration of VB into Excel is /extremely/
limited relative to what is possible with Ruby, which
is also capable of manipulation of Excel spreadsheets
via Win32OLE.

>as i said before, no problem with the library - have
> all the necessary >books on my shelf

Here I think you are confusing /physical/ books with
code libraries.

> ??? maybe its the inbreeding but i am confused...
the learning curve
> with ruby is /less steep/ but i will be doing things
/faster... in a shorter
> space of time/ ?

This is just a way of saying that ruby is less
difficult to learn and thus it will be quicker to get
things done. Languages with a steep learning curve are
/more difficult/.

Regards

Steve Callaway

==Message truncated==

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James Gray

5/11/2005 1:36:00 PM

On May 11, 2005, at 5:33 AM, Steve Callaway wrote:

> Conversely if you find that the code is not available
> (or not available at a price which you are prepared to
> pay) then I would look very closely at ruby as the
> best fit. It is fast...

I hope you were talking about coding speed here and not execution
speed. I work with several languages and I'm pretty sure Ruby is the
slowest (execution). Java is definitely faster at most things and
even Perl is significantly quicker in my experiments.

Don't get me wrong, I adore Ruby. I do believe it's very fast to
code in, but for execution speed, well, there's a reason we're very
excited about YARV. :)

James Edward Gray II

comp.lang.ruby

Re: ruby vs. java?

Steve Callaway

Franz Hartmann

Robert Klemme

Ralf Müller

Steve Callaway

James Gray

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